| News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License - True? | page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Mr Niding
Posts 459
07 Nov 2017 19:55
| Wont having one underlying Core make software developers life easier? And isnt the lack of updated/new software one of the main plagues of the Amiga, regardless of flavour? I realise Steve would now chime in and say its a hobby platform which is dead in mainstream terms, and I dont disagree, but making development easier for those that decide to endulge in this hobby can only be a good thing.
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Thierry Atheist
Posts 644
07 Nov 2017 20:09
| Mr Niding wrote:
| | Wont having one underlying Core make software developers life easier? And isnt the lack of updated/new software one of the main plagues of the Amiga, regardless of flavour? |
Weeeellllll, we could just go crazy, they open it up 100% and then someone writes an UAE of it in ~3 months time and sales could go to zero, I suppose.
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Marlon Beijer
Posts 182
07 Nov 2017 20:23
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Mr Niding wrote:
| | Wont having one underlying Core make software developers life easier? And isnt the lack of updated/new software one of the main plagues of the Amiga, regardless of flavour? |
Weeeellllll, we could just go crazy, they open it up 100% and then someone writes an UAE of it in ~3 months time and sales could go to zero, I suppose.
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People get Vampires to run it on the real deal rather than emulators. Having support for the 68080 in UAE would not change that, it would possibly make it easier for developers. But that's besides the point.
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Ian Parsons
Posts 230
07 Nov 2017 20:37
| I also expressed some concerns when this was first discussed on IRC some time ago. Whilst I would like to see encouragement of adoption of the 68080 core on other platforms (Mac classic, Atari ST) I am concerned about splitting it from the SAGA chipset on the Amiga and possibly losing other standard vampire features (128MB RAM minimum, microSD reader). Also offering a performance throttled free version of the core doesn't sit too well with me. The Amiga is playing catch-up with other platforms on performance after decades of falling behind, it has a long way to go and having "Apollo" systems out there that are under performing isn't the best path forward in my opinion. I'm not sure if there's a market for cut down Apollo accelerators anyway.
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Vojin Vidanovic
Posts 770
07 Nov 2017 20:48
| Ian Parsons wrote:
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it has a long way to go and having "Apollo" systems out there that are under performing isn't the best path forward in my opinion. I'm not sure if there's a market for cut down Apollo accelerators anyway.
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Only market I see are Classic users that need not SAGA but need 060 speed. This is well enough for most Classic titles. We will see will they endorse this oportunity and what will come out of it. I agree full blown thing is both 080 and SAGA, but only other option is freeing everything, which would leave Apollo team with no source of income and further development. Well, catching up ... v4 expected 100-200MIPS is far away from modern, but might give us some nice things to play with.
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6258
07 Nov 2017 21:02
| Ian Parsons wrote:
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I'm not sure if there's a market for cut down Apollo accelerators anyway.
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There are people today producing 68030 and 68020 CPU cards for AMIGA.
But even those chips low end 68K are hard to get now, and are 20 year old refurbished chips.
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Markus Horbach
Posts 35
07 Nov 2017 21:50
| @Gunnar:
Nice move to offer a 68080 core to other developer. I like that.Read the a1k.org thread and I am so sorry to see all the nitpickers who try to put the apollo core in the retro compatibility hell. I am curious to peek behind the scenes of the Apollo Core. I am awaiting some public available datasheets (not only a feature list, real tech info, no marketing blabla) to get a rough estimation of the hassle to create a own FPGA board. My DE0-nano is too small to handle the ApolloCore, a recommendation for the first steps would be useful. A Terasic Eval Board, perhaps ? DE10-nano with 110kLE ?
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
07 Nov 2017 22:17
| Mr Niding wrote:
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Wont having one underlying Core make software developers life easier? And isnt the lack of updated/new software one of the main plagues of the Amiga, regardless of flavour?
I realise Steve would now chime in and say its a hobby platform which is dead in mainstream terms, and I dont disagree, but making development easier for those that decide to endulge in this hobby can only be a good thing.
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If the Vampire ever gets burned onto an ASIC then I'll quit calling classic Amigas a dead platform. I hope that can happen but I also have to be realistic. Not only would the demand for it have to be enormous in Amiga terms, but someone with enormous pockets bulging with money would have to finance the engineering and production of said ASIC. I just don't see that happening for a very long time, if ever.
I've been surprised before though. It would be really cool if the defense or aerospace industry could find a use for the 68080.
I know that several Cisco routers use Motorola 68K processors so Cisco would be a likely customer for the Apollo core. Here's a list of their routers that use 68K CPUs.
2500 Series Motorola 680EC30
3100 Series Motorola 680EX30
4000 Series Motorola 68040
IGS Motorola 68020
AGS+ Motorola 68040
7000 Series Motorola 68040 (On RSP)
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Sean Sk
Posts 488
07 Nov 2017 22:58
| I don’t understand all this neagtivity regarding the move to licence out the Apollo core. I think this is a great idea!
First and foremost, it will provide added revenue for Apollo Accelerators.
It could become a defacto standard and assist developers in creating optimized spftware for it.
Any company could licence the 68060 core and create a low cost 060 accelerator without the need to source expensive real 060 CPU’s.
Increased market awareness of the Apollo Core could draw newcomers to the platform and hopefully more developers.
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Kresimir Lukin
Posts 65
07 Nov 2017 23:26
| it can be only positive, today there is no new 060 accelerators on market, you can buy only extremely expensive 2nd hand.
I am sure there will be market for this core as 060 and 080
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
07 Nov 2017 23:30
| sean sk wrote:
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I don’t understand all this neagtivity regarding the move to licence out the Apollo core. I think this is a great idea!
First and foremost, it will provide added revenue for Apollo Accelerators.
It could become a defacto standard and assist developers in creating optimized spftware for it.
Any company could licence the 68060 core and create a low cost 060 accelerator without the need to source expensive real 060 CPU’s.
Increased market awareness of the Apollo Core could draw newcomers to the platform and hopefully more developers.
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The only negativity I've seen in this thread so far is from Thierry. I'm just being realistic but hoping that Cisco or some other player takes notice of the Apollo core and will license it or help fund an ASIC version if demand increases enough to warrant it.
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Vojin Vidanovic
Posts 770
07 Nov 2017 23:36
| Steve Ferrell wrote:
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The only negativity I've seen in this thread so far is from Thierry. |
All the negativity is on amiga.org
Djole posted it there.
Usual bitchin about Vamp not being fully compatibile.
People seem to miss both v2 softFPU and v4 hardFPU progress.
Who has a lot of nerves can read.
EXTERNAL LINK
Steve Ferrell wrote:
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I'm just being realistic but hoping that Cisco or some other player takes notice of the Apollo core and will license it or help fund an ASIC version if demand increases enough to warrant it. |
While I do find your idea nice and forward looking, I believe its less likely then being adopted by some other Amigans / AtariSTs/ MacOS Classic purists. Servers and military uses needed bullet proof software alongside.
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
07 Nov 2017 23:49
| Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
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Steve Ferrell wrote:
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The only negativity I've seen in this thread so far is from Thierry. |
All the negativity is on amiga.org
Djole posted it there.
Usual bitchin about Vamp not being fully compatibile.
People seem to miss both v2 softFPU and v4 hardFPU progress.
Who has a lot of nerves can read.
EXTERNAL LINK
Steve Ferrell wrote:
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I'm just being realistic but hoping that Cisco or some other player takes notice of the Apollo core and will license it or help fund an ASIC version if demand increases enough to warrant it. |
While I do find your idea nice and forward looking, I believe its less likely then being adopted by some other Amigans / AtariSTs/ MacOS Classic purists. Servers and military uses needed bullet proof software alongside.
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Well, Cisco would be a huge win for Apollo, They're already heavily invested in 68K hardware and software. But I have to wonder if Motorola would try to sue the pants off Gunnar if Cisco showed any interest the Apollo core. Yeah, I have to agree with you about all of the negativity over at Amiga.org. If they're not bashing the Vampire or the Apollo core and Team, they're foaming at the mouth over the perceived piracy of OS3.x. There are a bunch of them there who are demanding that I buy a new copy of OS3.x from Hyperion simply because I intend to buy a Vampire....never mind that I already own two legal copies of OS3.1 and one legal copy of OS3.9....yet I have only one functional Amiga. I swear that some of those people must be on Hyperion's or A-Eon's payroll.
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Vojin Vidanovic
Posts 770
08 Nov 2017 00:05
| Steve Ferrell wrote:
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I swear that some of those people must be on Hyperion's or A-Eon's payroll.
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Dont worry about NXP/Freescale, I believe they have 0 interest in 68k.
On people: There are no OS4 real news for way too long, it at least gives a "breath of life" to these otherwise half dead forums.
And they base a lot of negativity on old info. Boy that 2.7 core and v4 release will turn the story around, alongside if we ever reach that damn MMU compatibility.
They keep forgetting FPGA nature makes 080 no carved design.
I doubt Hype/AEON pay anyone, they just take peoples money, and mostly move on to "new projects.
My latest discovery on milking scheme was that my Enhancer and Radeon 7000HD purchase dont bring me w3d compatibility. They ask "just" $35 for that kind of RadeonHD driver even I have paid once for 2D edition of driver (with x1000), second time to have a physical copy and support development and third time via Enhancer maxed purchase of 100$. This would be forth time.
Enhancer driver is just Warp3DNova which has 1 game done and two in works.
Note that ApolloOS bitchin continues on amiga.org by BigD!
EXTERNAL LINK
I mean ... "my CIA chips will burn" ... and I killed CBM!
Big D at amiga.org wrote:
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There's really no nice way to say it really: People like you are scum, responsible for the death of the Commodore in the first place with your X-Copy parties and loose morals and you don't deserve to use a Vampire. Copyright exists for a reason i.e. to pay the people that invested and still invest in the Amiga platform. H&P are still in business and Vesalia Online still sell the discs so you've got NO excuse not to buy OS3.9. If you don't I hope your CIAs fail and your Vampire short circuits! |
Arrr ... going to play sid meiers pirates and fire up XCopy in name of that! >:-)
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
08 Nov 2017 00:23
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Big D at amiga.org wrote:
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There's really no nice way to say it really: People like you are scum, responsible for the death of the Commodore in the first place with your X-Copy parties and loose morals and you don't deserve to use a Vampire. Copyright exists for a reason i.e. to pay the people that invested and still invest in the Amiga platform. H&P are still in business and Vesalia Online still sell the discs so you've got NO excuse not to buy OS3.9. If you don't I hope your CIAs fail and your Vampire short circuits! |
Wow, and I thought they were way over the top by what they were saying to me! That place has become a haven for crazy people. I try to stay away from there and I am usually successful for about 3-5 weeks between posts but some of their rants get so out of control that I can't help myself and so I make the mistake of responding and rousing the trolls. I need to just stay away from there entirely. The site really has nothing of value to offer anyone anymore that can't be had on other sites with a lot less hysteria and psychoses.
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John William
Posts 578
08 Nov 2017 01:16
| Steve Ferrell wrote:
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sean sk wrote:
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I don’t understand all this neagtivity regarding the move to licence out the Apollo core. I think this is a great idea!
First and foremost, it will provide added revenue for Apollo Accelerators.
It could become a defacto standard and assist developers in creating optimized spftware for it.
Any company could licence the 68060 core and create a low cost 060 accelerator without the need to source expensive real 060 CPU’s.
Increased market awareness of the Apollo Core could draw newcomers to the platform and hopefully more developers.
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The only negativity I've seen in this thread so far is from Thierry. I'm just being realistic but hoping that Cisco or some other player takes notice of the Apollo core and will license it or help fund an ASIC version if demand increases enough to warrant it.
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Damn! I don't know why I love you Steve Ferrel :D
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John William
Posts 578
08 Nov 2017 01:17
| Steve Ferrell wrote:
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Big D at amiga.org wrote:
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There's really no nice way to say it really: People like you are scum, responsible for the death of the Commodore in the first place with your X-Copy parties and loose morals and you don't deserve to use a Vampire. Copyright exists for a reason i.e. to pay the people that invested and still invest in the Amiga platform. H&P are still in business and Vesalia Online still sell the discs so you've got NO excuse not to buy OS3.9. If you don't I hope your CIAs fail and your Vampire short circuits! |
Wow, and I thought they were way over the top by what they were saying to me! That place has become a haven for crazy people. I try to stay away from there and I am usually successful for about 3-5 weeks between posts but some of their rants get so out of control that I can't help myself and so I make the mistake of responding and rousing the trolls. I need to just stay away from there entirely. The site really has nothing of value to offer anyone anymore that can't be had on other sites with a lot less hysteria and psychoses.
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Are you talking about amiga.org? Re-reading your quote yes it is from amiga.org. I am done with that website for life. I never, ever ever ever view that site or go to it anymore. They are dead place for me. I am surprised you still linger there.
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Sebastian Blanco
Posts 148
08 Nov 2017 01:24
| John William wrote:
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Steve Ferrell wrote:
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Big D at amiga.org wrote:
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There's really no nice way to say it really: People like you are scum, responsible for the death of the Commodore in the first place with your X-Copy parties and loose morals and you don't deserve to use a Vampire. Copyright exists for a reason i.e. to pay the people that invested and still invest in the Amiga platform. H&P are still in business and Vesalia Online still sell the discs so you've got NO excuse not to buy OS3.9. If you don't I hope your CIAs fail and your Vampire short circuits! |
Wow, and I thought they were way over the top by what they were saying to me! That place has become a haven for crazy people. I try to stay away from there and I am usually successful for about 3-5 weeks between posts but some of their rants get so out of control that I can't help myself and so I make the mistake of responding and rousing the trolls. I need to just stay away from there entirely. The site really has nothing of value to offer anyone anymore that can't be had on other sites with a lot less hysteria and psychoses.
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Are you talking about amiga.org? Re-reading your quote yes it is from amiga.org. I am done with that website for life. I never, ever ever ever view that site or go to it anymore. They are dead place for me. I am surprised you still linger there.
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That scum thing was for me i am "soviet" from amiga.org, seem to be a very bad vibe about the apollo core and the vampire there. some folks seem to be there just to bash anything vampire related. And the copyright nazis are in full throttle, but i think they are funny each day seem they are more desperate.
I was just try to help a guy suggesting to download the apollo os.
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
08 Nov 2017 01:50
| John William wrote:
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Steve Ferrell wrote:
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Big D at amiga.org wrote:
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There's really no nice way to say it really: People like you are scum, responsible for the death of the Commodore in the first place with your X-Copy parties and loose morals and you don't deserve to use a Vampire. Copyright exists for a reason i.e. to pay the people that invested and still invest in the Amiga platform. H&P are still in business and Vesalia Online still sell the discs so you've got NO excuse not to buy OS3.9. If you don't I hope your CIAs fail and your Vampire short circuits! |
Wow, and I thought they were way over the top by what they were saying to me! That place has become a haven for crazy people. I try to stay away from there and I am usually successful for about 3-5 weeks between posts but some of their rants get so out of control that I can't help myself and so I make the mistake of responding and rousing the trolls. I need to just stay away from there entirely. The site really has nothing of value to offer anyone anymore that can't be had on other sites with a lot less hysteria and psychoses.
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Are you talking about amiga.org? Re-reading your quote yes it is from amiga.org. I am done with that website for life. I never, ever ever ever view that site or go to it anymore. They are dead place for me. I am surprised you still linger there.
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I pop in there from time to time just out of curiosity and to see what they have to say about the Vampire and the Apollo Team. The misinformation about the Vampire and the vitriol that I find there is astounding. I'm glad that I don't have to be around any of those people in the real world. I can only imagine what they must be like in person. Visiting the site is like visiting a virtual insane asylum.
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Steve Ferrell
Posts 424
08 Nov 2017 02:00
| Sebastian Blanco wrote:
| | That scum thing was for me i am "soviet" from amiga.org, seem to be a very bad vibe about the apollo core and the vampire there. some folks seem to be there just to bash anything vampire related. And the copyright nazis are in full throttle, but i think they are funny each day seem they are more desperate.
I was just try to help a guy suggesting to download the apollo os.
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Ah, yes. I was wondering who Soviet really was and I saw some of their attacks on you. I've also noticed that same desperation there. As the Vampire increases in popularity those guys are becoming more and more irrelevant to the Amiga community so their postings and comments only get more vitriolic and radical. They're like little children fighting to be heard by their mommy. As their mommy pays less and less attention to them, they shout louder and exhibit ever increasing bad behavior in hopes they'll get the attention they crave. They've been self-appointed Amiga experts for years and can't deal with losing that status.
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Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.