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| | Louis Dias (Needs Verification) Posts 55/ 1 14 Jun 2018 17:08
| Yes, that's a nice demo but I see 2 to 32 triangles/polygons max to pull it off depending how the texture was mapped. This is why I believe AMMX belongs in the blitter or copper and massively parallelized/multi-cored.
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| | Gunnar von Boehn (Apollo Team Member) Posts 6258 14 Jun 2018 18:41
| Louis Dias wrote:
| This is why I believe ..
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Could it be that you are neither a game programmer nor a professional hardware engineer? Our team has both experienced game programmers and professional chip designers. Its nice that you try to help them with your opinion. Do you know the fairy tale story about the Turtle which tried to educate an Eagle how to fly?
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| | David Wright
Posts 373 14 Jun 2018 19:03
| There is another one of Gunnar's parables, I love 'em.
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| | Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393 15 Jun 2018 05:49
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| APOLLO 68080 is highly powerful by itself and APOLLO 68080 is internally designed with Multi-Core support.
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Did you try making a 96 bit or 128 bit version?
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| | Mallagan Bellator
Posts 393 15 Jun 2018 05:53
| tango one wrote:
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| So working in a team of 2 you can assume to be able to do more work. |
Thats awsome of what this team have done in so short time, compared to what C= did with some thousends of employees.
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Also keep in mind the technologies of the 80s and early 90s
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| | Vojin Vidanovic (Needs Verification) Posts 1916/ 1 15 Jun 2018 08:16
| thellier alain wrote:
| Wazp3D for AMMX was already discussed here CLICK HERE |
Merci Alain, Discussion is I assume nice for coders, but it doesnt indicate feasability to non educated reader. I hope someone can pick it up and we can make first bounty or paypal support to a willing coder. How does existing 68k wazp3d perform on x13+ Vamps?
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| | Adam Whittaker (Needs Verification) Posts 270/ 1 15 Jun 2018 09:54
| so bringing the topic back around to saga/aga launch are we talking days? weeks? or months now?
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| | Peter Heginbotham
Posts 214 15 Jun 2018 11:14
| between now and Sunday 23 September which is the last day of Summer. T-minus 100 Days
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| | Kef Emzy
Posts 50 15 Jun 2018 11:35
| Gunnar, Would it make sense to add bezier curve capability for the blitter? Faster font rendering perhaps?
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| | Michael Nurney
Posts 283 15 Jun 2018 15:29
| Reading between the lines , I would imagine gold3 to be at the end of the year. If it’s early then that’s great 😀 Either good luck :)
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| | Thellier Alain
Posts 143 18 Jun 2018 09:18
| Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
| [about Wazp3D] : nice for coders, but it doesnt indicate feasability to non educated reader. |
This is because I dont have the answers too ;-) I dont have a Vampire now but I will buy a standalone a soon as possible so I cant tell how performs Wazp3D on a Vampire hardware But I have seen videos and read reports: current Wazp3D & MiniGL/StormMesa can runs now on Vampire hardware but is too slow for games :-( EXTERNAL LINK So Wazp3D will need to be drastically enhanced to be really usable for games on Vampire : perhaps will need to run 20X faster or more As Wazp3D was almost never tested/enhanced/optimized for real 68k machines making it 2x faster with rewriting some parts is not impossible. Then using AMMX code will speed the most crucial part (processing pixel fragments) perhaps 5-10x. But it is theorical : will need to benchmark on real hard before starting to code The most inner loop in a 3D engine process the pixels (like a fragment shader) with zbuffer, texturing, filtering,coloring, modulate and blending it will cost around 20 instructions So the more "things" the AMMX can do in a single instruction the better This is why I asked about a new lea3D(uv,tex),ptr with uv as a single 64 bits vector register containing two 32 bits values and a padd32 to add two 64 bits vectors as 32 bits (an add ivec2 in fact)
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| | Gregthe Canuck
Posts 274 18 Jun 2018 10:18
| That youtube demo you linked to was running on core 2.7 with femu. It would be interesting to see that running under core 2.9 as a new performance base. It may be significantly improved already. :) Cheers!
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| | Louis Dias (Needs Verification) Posts 55/ 1 18 Jun 2018 17:21
| Actually I am a programmer though I started in computer engineering. I've also worked with some 3D api and know that the only way to achieve acceptable performance is because modern graphics cards do massively parallel computing. Heck gpu clocks are still under 1Ghz … Clockspeed is not the issue. In fact one of my links earlier was to an opensource 3d programmer's cad program called OpenSCAD. This way I can program the 3D object I want rather than use a traditional point and click UI because I find it faster to code it than draw it. That's why I was asking about AMIGA applications that can render .stl files. Apparently only Blender on OS4 can...Here's a test web page I did to try out threeJS on a web page: EXTERNAL LINK
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| | Thellier Alain
Posts 143 18 Jun 2018 19:00
| .STL is not a complicated file format : I will add this file format to my Microbe3D one of those days...
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| | Louis Dias (Needs Verification) Posts 55/ 1 18 Jun 2018 19:17
| Yes, it is simple ... both binary and ascii version. I'm just shocked that such a trivial thing doesn't exist. It is the most interchangeable 3D format and yet...crickets...I've used OpenSCAD to re-create parts of the interior of my car and sent the .stl files to 3dhubs . com for printing.
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| | Steve Ferrell
Posts 424 18 Jun 2018 23:48
| Louis Dias wrote:
| Yes, it is simple ... both binary and ascii version. I'm just shocked that such a trivial thing doesn't exist. It is the most interchangeable 3D format and yet...crickets... I've used OpenSCAD to re-create parts of the interior of my car and sent the .stl files to 3dhubs . com for printing. |
Stereo-lithography for the masses occurred long after the Amiga's popularity had waned so why are you surprised that classic Amiga apps supporting the STL file format are few-to-none? AutoDesk's DXF file format is ubiquitous among CAD programs for 2D and 3D data exchange as far back as the late 1980's but you'll only find one or two classic Amiga apps that even claim to support DXF, and very poorly I might add. The Amiga was never marketed nor perceived to be a system for serious 2-D or 3-D CAD design work for several reasons, one being that most stock Amigas didn't possess a math co-processor but mainly because people perceived the Amiga to be a machine for gamers or video designers/editors/animators so CAD developers chose to take their R&D dollars to other platforms, and rightly so.
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| | John Heritage
Posts 112 19 Jun 2018 00:07
| If anyone has the skills - the sourcecode for slic3r is here: EXTERNAL LINK Convert .STL into G-Code for use with 3D printers. Written in C++ and uses PERL. And a basic 3D printing app that runs in PERL (Amiga has a PERL port).. EXTERNAL LINK So Step 1 - visit a page with STL files Step 2 - Slic3r it to G-Code Step 3 - use Pronterface (PERL) to print to a 3D printer (Connect to 3D Printer using a serial port..)
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| | Ian Parsons
Posts 230 19 Jun 2018 00:14
| CAD software is specialist and costly to develop compared to consumer applications like a word processor or spreadsheet. So professional CAD software was very expensive. If you are going to develop very expensive software (costing tens of thousands of dollars) it's sensible to target expensive "professional" systems (also costing tens of thousands of dollars). The first two generations of Amiga were too cheap to be professional CAD systems and needed accelerators and graphics cards to provide the performance and hires monitor support for pro CAD tools. By the time the A3000 came along the days of the specialist workstations were ending with high end PCs becoming the tools of choice.
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| | Vojin Vidanovic (Needs Verification) Posts 1916/ 1 19 Jun 2018 00:57
| Ian Parsons wrote:
| The first two generations of Amiga were too cheap to be professional CAD systems and needed accelerators and graphics cards to provide the performance and hires monitor support for pro CAD tools. By the time the A3000 came along the days of the specialist workstations were ending with high end PCs becoming the tools of choice. |
1991 was not that late, and it was second gen Amiga. However, yes, CAD software never picked up on AmigaOS, neither sadly word processing, database and spreadshit really developed beyond some basic levels.1994 crash of Commodore and subsequent vanish of Amiga software market surely took its heavy toll. Those consequences we suffer even today. There were some nice solutions during Amiga golden era, but is quite outdated software by today standards. Maxon CAD used to exist EXTERNAL LINK MaxonCAD 2 DMS EXTERNAL LINK Couple of MUI based solutions and some basic levels where software might be picked from, if any developers left. e.g. ~1997 simple solutions Plan Demo EXTERNAL LINK SchematicsCAD EXTERNAL LINK PCAD EXTERNAL LINK TroniCAD EXTERNAL LINK Having some open source ports and developments like e.g. AbiWord under OS4 kind of saves the day. It would be e.g. great to see GIMP and Libre Writter ported to m68k with MUI4 GUI. I suppose some free and open source CAD does exist.
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| | Gilles Dridi
Posts 52 01 Jul 2018 21:13
| Gilles Dridi wrote:
| Hello, AAA was on the edge in 1993 Dev Conf : EXTERNAL LINK And some ugly nyx prototype board? But a totally different chip set with SIMD? for 3D was design in parallel? : EXTERNAL LINK What about NatAmi 3D core ? I understood that 68080 with AMMX (SIMD) is used instead ; isn't it ? Of course there's the Vampire team working hard to AAA salvation as excerpted Stephen Jones in a Retro Gaming episode. Someday I will start with HDL but seems there's other way to participate like making software for USB or Ethernet on/for the standalone V4 ... DGILLES
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Now, let's talk about Atari Jaguar ? At 25:00 twenty five minutes passed : EXTERNAL LINK Nitendo 64 (cube) , PlayStation are all really retro gaming ? Amigalement..
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