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Questions and Answers for AMIGA Workbench or Coffin

Update Option In Coffinpage  1 2 3 

Paul the Tall

Posts 6
26 Apr 2018 17:14


Why Is it coffin? thats such a dark name. Apolloos was better or make it ApolloBench or something like that.

Anyway, just a request propbably everyone would appreciate:
- An software update option. Making it easy to update the OS using internet

Of xourxe when a file system is changed then it needs a new image, but if it are smaller updates this would safe tonnes of time. Thanks in advance!


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
26 Apr 2018 17:18


"ApolloOS" associates it is somehow related to the apollo team but it is not, from a legal point it is pure poison for a commercial project because highly illegal


Paul the Tall

Posts 6
26 Apr 2018 20:35


Ok, and the update part?


Djole Djole

Posts 35
26 Apr 2018 21:12


Paul.... Would you like to host it ? :) And you make it sound so simple ;)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
26 Apr 2018 21:24


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  "ApolloOS" associates it is somehow related to the apollo team but it is not, from a legal point it is pure poison for a commercial project because highly illegal
 

 
  Just to clarify this: illegality is mainly caused by obscure state of Amiga software. It is ("just") pack of usable and mature AmigaOS and its apps as any advanced user would build over the years. Minus few names which way too expensive back in the days, and most recent 68k software added, its what everyone would build for his high end Amiga. It would just takes ... a lot of time and effort.
 
  Its not a commercial product.
 
  Its not as "legal" as AmiKit which turned to get all the acknowledgements, include mostly free software apart from software given by authors and ended as commercial product.
 
  Name change certainly reflects that team does not want it associated with development of hardware, even it is "software that supports it".

Paul The Tall wrote:

Ok, and the update part?

Basis is there, it just needs an update server with gigs of files, where changes would be included and from where users would download it.


Sean Sk

Posts 370
27 Apr 2018 01:39


I don't know why these requests are being made in this forum since no one here has anything to do with it's development.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 06:56


Paul The Tall wrote:

  Why Is it coffin? thats such a dark name.
 

 
  Because Vampire lives there, also.
 



Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
27 Apr 2018 09:39


it is illegal
 
  I should know it because some of the included (commercial) software I asked at the copyright owners and got a no (in one case a friendly one because they themselves would have permitted it but copyright stayed at the developers and they had no contact anymore). I also communicated to Mr. Haage (H&P) OS 3.9. I am pretty sure whoever did it did not ask. It would have been possible to do something if done like Amikit with automatic copying of files from original CD. If someone would sue because of that is another question. But copyright stays and at least attorneys could be tempted to earn some money with it, and it would offer ammunition to competition against the project. As I already wrote a couple of times, team members should officially stay away from it. Users can do what they want.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 09:52


Well, there isn`t "legal side" in development and on sale either.

Fighting over something that mostly ceased to develop and be on sale for 10-30 years now?

It would be great if all the included authors/IP holders would agree it can be commercial product when everyone is paid, but I dont see nor their interest or public opossition to Coffin.

In fact when any of authors just publicly said he would like to have his software removed from Apollo/Coffin, it was done so.

So in these terms "its less and less illegal" not more.

I agree, AmiKit check would be sufficient.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
27 Apr 2018 10:01


it would have been better to do it the amikit way and only include software with permission by copyright owners or where distribution is allowed (by included documents). That is how the more official distributions were created. Of course that makes work, you must find the copyright owners and get permission. Sometimes they say no, in other cases you do not find anyone you could ask. Email-Addresses included are mostly no longer working. That makes a lot of work, is time consuming and not fun. Of course to do it the amikit way you would need to create a installer, that makes a lot of work too. Whoever is behind this distribution avoided all this by ignoring legal views and host it anonym. Still there was a lot of work invested but from legal point it stays illegal even if most copyright owners propably not care. Not everyone in amiga community might be happy with the success of Vampire so official supporting it by team members could create legal trouble for the whole project. So again... team members should officially stay away from it.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 10:06


What happened to idea of sending a Vampire to Jan (AmiKit creator) and having official AmiKIt X for Vampire?
 
  That would give a legal background where AF or OS 3.9+AmiKit would be fully legal s/w side of e.g. Standalone.

Jan was interested to see Vampire firsthand, but for some reason (and Pedros Vampirizer I suppose) Danilo and few local owners were not interested in hosting him.

Team can make contact with Jan and there isn`t much stopping him from making AmiKit X Vampire SE :-)


Gernt Gerloff

Posts 49
27 Apr 2018 10:12


@Vojin: youíd forget here that there are also programs are included which are rather new and still actively developed, and the author was not asked if it was allowed to add.
  So I guess it was even not tried.
 
  And this makes me a little bit angry, because that can result in coder leaving the platform.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
27 Apr 2018 10:22


that would be a little difficult because there would be a chance then to identify who is behind it

then the distribution would have needed to go the official legal route (with all consequences)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 10:32


Gernt Gerloff wrote:

@Vojin: youíd forget here that there are also programs are included which are rather new and still actively developed, and the author was not asked if it was allowed to add.

I am not aware that any COMMERCIALLY SOLD and ACTIVELY DEVELOPED product is included. Please, enlighten me. Surely, all actively developed software is included, but mostly I see its the same free/shareware stuff that pops on Aminet.

Gernt Gerloff wrote:

So I guess it was even not tried.
 
  And this makes me a little bit angry, because that can result in coder leaving the platform.

I see just coders inspired by Vampire arise, like Arti. Has anyone left?




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 10:36


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

that would be a little difficult because there would be a chance then to identify who is behind it
 
  then the distribution would have needed to go the official legal route (with all consequences)

Why not making AmiKit X enriched by most recent and copyright free stuff (like Netsurf, Vamp tools, Riva) and simply making a legal replacement that can be sold, shipped, discussed, legally enriched and where authors could be contacted?

I dont see why this isnt a win-win situation.

This is what Jan said back at end of 2017

" thanks a lot for your email! Do you have the Vampire card? Well, I don't but a Vampire version of AmiKit X is in consideration. That's all I can say now ;)"


Gernt Gerloff

Posts 49
27 Apr 2018 10:48


It does not need commercial sold. You should also not distribute free programs without statement that distribution is allowed. For Stuff from Aminet itís no problem itís part of the upload statement, for other stuff when Itís not written on the page itís not allowed. And itís not the task of coder to check if you included the program and actively forbid or allow you that, but itís your task to check BEFORE distributing anything from other people.

You want to know which program? Just go through the list of included programs and check for each if they are on aminet or a written consent of the author is there then you will find it.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
27 Apr 2018 10:55


Gernt Gerloff wrote:

You want to know which program? Just go through the list of included programs and check for each if they are on aminet or a written consent of the author is there then you will find it.

While you are overaly right, I mind you this is no real market, but ashes of it. I dont see why distro that generally just summs up what has been done so far, is seen as such evil.

I dont have that much lifetime to waste, but yet no real point of ilegallity has been clearly indicated(e.g. again naming commercial product being included beside OS 3.x that most of Classic users do have, so they negate its "ilegality").

In order to avoid such labelling in the future (forum spitting, Hyperion legal threats, few coders mumbling because their software is used ...), I yet opt for AmiKit X Vampire SE where all clearly legal and really new things could be included (e.g. Riva, Vamp tools, Tukos Iconset ...).

P.S.
In same manner that you are saying MUI5 in OS4 is fully illegal.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
27 Apr 2018 11:00


even software on aminet is partly not legal to be distributed elsewhere. I sometimes got grey hairs because software distribution was only allowed on aminet but authors was not available anymore because software is old and contact informations not valid anymore. To be on safe side (if not in contact with author) you have to check documentation of every included software component regarding distribution, in many cases it is allowed if you do not ask for money but not in all cases. And it is not really fun because in a bigger distribution many software components are included.


Gernt Gerloff

Posts 49
27 Apr 2018 11:07


When I look at the programs I immediately see one which is problematic.
  Maybe because I use it on OS4 as well and I know the Author removed the OS 4 Version once because it got distributed without permission. And letís say so I have a feeling he also was not asked here because his relation to Vampire is ďdifficultĒ
 
  @Olaf
  Yes thatís true and kudos for your work in ArosVision to get the agreement from the authors which showed it is possible, if someone want to.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 646
27 Apr 2018 11:10


Cinema 4D is one example

It is still sold commercially (even if rewritten at least partly or complete). There was a clear No by copyright owner to include it somewhere

So simply believe me Vojin Coffin IS illegal

you can say nobodys sales are harmed because noone today is actively developing and selling 68k software anymore but this has nothing to do with the question of the legal status. Vampire is a project that has not only friends (partly because of different commercial interests) so offering those legal reasons to sue just on silver tablet would be simply crazy.

Amikit special version would be a different question. Then it would be responsibility of the person behind it to care about legallity.

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