Overview Features Instructions Performance Forum Downloads Products OrderV4 Reseller Contact

Welcome to the Apollo Forum

This forum is for people interested in the APOLLO CPU.
Please read the forum usage manual.



All TopicsNewsPerformanceGamesDemosApolloVampireAROSWorkbenchATARIReleases
Documentation about the Vampire hardware

500 V2+ On An A2000 With a ZZ9000 Card

Angelo C

Posts 3
21 Mar 2020 16:23


My current setup is an A2000 with an '030 and a ZZ9000 RTG card.

I'm just wondering if anyone has tested a Vampire 500 V2+ on an A2000 with the ZZ9000 solely used as a de-interlacer and DIGITAL-VIDEO out, ignoring it as an RTG card?

Thank-you.



Adam A

Posts 119
25 Mar 2020 23:59


considering the numbers of vampirized amiga 2000, I don't think anyone tested this setup before, I also doubt it will even work.


Eric Gus

Posts 441
26 Mar 2020 06:29


The only output the A500 Vampire V2+ card can do right now is RTG via digital video, so ignoring it as an RTG basically means you wont get any output.. (until core3 comes but right now nothing has been promised).


Roy Gillotti

Posts 462
26 Mar 2020 07:37


eric gus wrote:

The only output the A500 Vampire V2+ card can do right now is RTG via digital video, so ignoring it as an RTG basically means you wont get any output.. (until core3 comes but right now nothing has been promised).

Well if I select a video mode that's OCS or ECS I have a video output going through the RGB connector. That said, in theory running multiple video cards is a thing that Amiga can do, just select the output via the video mode selector.


Mattie Whittle

Posts 5
26 Mar 2020 12:55


In principle it should work.

A500 with zorro slot

EXTERNAL LINK 


Angelo C

Posts 3
27 Mar 2020 01:33


I was thinking on the lines of just using the ZZ to output the video when the vampire is not using its RTG mode. Saves me some money from buying a flicker-fixer/scan-doubler from IC.
 
Now looking at that external link, is Matt using the Vampire strictly as an accelerator and ignoring the vampire RTG while using the RTG & video from the ZZ? And the Vampire's RAM is allocated and usable?
 
That's a thought.
 
   


Eric Gus

Posts 441
27 Mar 2020 06:36


Roy Gillotti wrote:

 
eric gus wrote:

  The only output the A500 Vampire V2+ card can do right now is RTG via digital video, so ignoring it as an RTG basically means you wont get any output.. (until core3 comes but right now nothing has been promised).
 

  Well if I select a video mode that's OCS or ECS I have a video output going through the RGB connector. That said, in theory running multiple video cards is a thing that Amiga can do, just select the output via the video mode selector.
 

 
  Right but I think the o/p wants to run those over digital-video not RGB.. and right now thats a no-go unless you use the alpha core3 .. which hasnt been updated in some time..

if you dont want to use the OCS/ECS modes via digital-video and are ok with RGB then yea (in theory) it should work presuming you can interface it


Allan Versaevel

Posts 92
27 Mar 2020 06:38


I am using my ZZ9900 with the Vampire 500 V2+ as I type. I switch between the Vampire GFX and the ZZ9900s's GFX from time to time. I have two different installs, each on it's own Compact Flash Card. One card has the Coffin OS installed using the VampireGFX and the Other card has OS 3.9 using the ZZ9900 graphics output. The native Amiga output via the ZZ9900 works fine either way. Since the Vampire is an all in one card, the memory will available to the system regadless of what Video output you choose since it is integrated onboard, tied to the CPU.


Angelo C

Posts 3
27 Mar 2020 14:11


Allan, how much slower is the ZZ's graphics vs the Vampire? Is it a  noticeable difference? The Z2 bus is pretty slow.




Allan Versaevel

Posts 92
27 Mar 2020 19:54


I run most apps in 1280x720 8/16 bit. It's definitely not as fast as the Vampire, especially in 16/24 bit modes but it's not horrible either. It's as fast as most graphics cards on the Amiga 2000 as long as you keep the Workbench screen resolution and depth to 16 bits or lower. But still, it's OK and doesn't stop me from using it. Especially when the Amiga's native output is used, the ZZ9900 switches automatically witch is very convenient. I can leave my DIGITAL-VIDEO switch on the same input unlike when I use the Vampire.
 
The Ethernet is nice and fast as well (in-line with other cards I have). The  last update resolved the hideous 25KB/s transfer speeds, now I get around 600 KB/s. I have not tried the ZZ9900 yet on my 4000 since it has no case at the moment. I bought a defective motherboard off of eBay a year ago and finally got it working :) It would be nice to see the difference in graphics performance between Zorro 2 and Zorro 3 with the ZZ9900.
 
  I hope this helps...


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 193
28 Mar 2020 10:13


Adam  A wrote:

considering the numbers of vampirized amiga 2000, I don't think anyone tested this setup before, I also doubt it will even work.

Based on what exactly?

I have a vampirized A2000 with a ZZ9000.  I use it also for the scan doubling.  Both with and without RTG.  It works fine.


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 193
28 Mar 2020 10:21


Angelo C wrote:

Allan, how much slower is the ZZ's graphics vs the Vampire? Is it a  noticeable difference? The Z2 bus is pretty slow.

There isn't a simple answer here.  The Vampire has blindingly fast access speed to its own frame buffer.  So for mpeg playback and raw pixel writing speed, the vampire RTG is king.  However, the ZZ9000 has an ARM processor on board which accelerates drawing operations.  So in desktop operation, you might not notice the difference so much...........until you switch to 1280x720 or higher.  Then you start to see the screen redraws on the ZZ90000 when flip between screens.  Here the Vampire RTG is much better.

For me the promise of the ZZ9000 is in the on-board ARM processor.  Off-loading things like OpenGL drawing operations to the ARM processor could be very interesting.  Whilst not currently supported by the A2000 version currently (and I assume this applies to the A500 version as well), offloading graphically intense operations to the ARM processor is a very interesting proposition.

Vampire CPU + ZZ9000 could be a killer combination in my mind.


Allan Versaevel

Posts 92
28 Mar 2020 16:35


For some reason I refered to the ZZ9000 as the ZZ9900. Sorry about that. Cheapest upgrade ever :)


Cyril G

Posts 12
28 Mar 2020 17:51


Ronnie Beck wrote:

  Vampire CPU + ZZ9000 could be a killer combination in my mind.

I will be more than happy to test this kind of configuration in my A4000T+ZZ9000 when a Vampire card will be available for A4000 :-)


Thorsten B

Posts 3
07 Jan 2021 19:14


Hey, I'm currently waiting for my Vampire to arrive. A2K with zz9000 running fine on OS 3.1.4. Is there a recommendation for this setup tp work? I'd like to use both rtg solutions side by side since both have their advantages. The scandoubler/flifi is an absolute charm and I'd like to use it alongside the vampire for gaming. If this was supported this was a great advantage for the vampire because it would enable the mass of A2K Users to use their machine extremely convenient!!


Darren Eveland

Posts 17
08 Jan 2021 03:39


Thorsten B wrote:

  Hey, I'm currently waiting for my Vampire to arrive. A2K with zz9000 running fine on OS 3.1.4. Is there a recommendation for this setup tp work? I'd like to use both rtg solutions side by side since both have their advantages. The scandoubler/flifi is an absolute charm and I'd like to use it alongside the vampire for gaming. If this was supported this was a great advantage for the vampire because it would enable the mass of A2K Users to use their machine extremely convenient!!
 

 
  I have a Vampire in my A2000 and also an old (but working) flicker fixer in the A2000 video slot.  The Vampire H.D.M.I output is connected to the DVI input on my monitor via H.D.M.I to DVI cable.  The A2000 flicker fixer is connected to the VGA input of the same monitor.  When a native display app (like a game) is launched, the Vampire RTG goes to no signal, and my monitor sees that and automatically switches to the VGA output.  Quite nice.  Unfortunately the opposite - quitting the game - leaves a white display on native output, so I have to manually switch back to Vampire RTG using a button on the front of the monitor.  There may be a way for P96 to blank the native output...I didn't look into it yet.  I believe on CyberGraphX you can do that.
 
  Anyway, if you don't need the (expensive) zz9000 this solution will work as well.  A2000 flicker fixers can be had cheaper.  However, having said this, I do have a zz9000 on order...just not sure if I will put it in my A2000 or not :)
 
  Darren

PS - why does this site change H.D.M.I to "DIGITAL VIDEO"?  Lame!!
 


Andy Hearn

Posts 334
08 Jan 2021 14:18


good to hear it works! now, if i could just for a moment stop going and looking for A2000's for sale every time someone mentions one...

i think haych dee emm eye gets changed because its a registered trademark (i think?), and every device sold with the physical port that shall not be named, has to pay a tax to the haych dee emm eye consortium... sounds like a license to print money if you ask me.


Roy Gillotti

Posts 462
08 Jan 2021 16:13


yeah it's also why I remember a bit of early arm devboards used to call their H.D.M.I. output DVI-D in all their documentation, despite having an obvious H.D.M.I connector and being fully H.D.M.I. compliant.


Thorsten B

Posts 3
08 Jan 2021 22:37


Darren Eveland wrote:

Thorsten B wrote:

  Hey, I'm currently waiting for my Vampire to arrive. A2K with zz9000 running fine on OS 3.1.4. Is there a recommendation for this setup tp work? I'd like to use both rtg solutions side by side since both have their advantages. The scandoubler/flifi is an absolute charm and I'd like to use it alongside the vampire for gaming. If this was supported this was a great advantage for the vampire because it would enable the mass of A2K Users to use their machine extremely convenient!!
 

Anyway, if you don't need the (expensive) zz9000 this solution will work as well.  A2000 flicker fixers can be had cheaper.  However, having said this, I do have a zz9000 on order...just not sure if I will put it in my A2000 or not :)
 
  Darren
 
  PS - why does this site change H.D.M.I to "DIGITAL VIDEO"?  Lame!!
 

Hey Darren,

believe me, the moment you try the zz9000 you will never go back to another scandoubler/flifi! It's the single most convenient thing I experienced with Amigas ever.

I hope that somebody here has experience with this combination since its the two most modern approaches available today.
I would not drop my zz9000 - I'd rather get me another A2K but would even more like to use both in one machine.


Allan Versaevel

Posts 92
09 Jan 2021 04:59


I also have the ZZ9000 paired with my Amiga 2000 Vampire V500 V2+. This combination results in one of the best Amiga experiences ever. I also have the Prisma Megamix MP3/FLAC decoder, adds a nice touch. As Thorsten B stated, this is the card to have, hands down.
       
    I have another ZZ9000 that I will be installing in my recently purchased A4000 with an 060 Accerlerator. Though not neraly as fast as the Vampire, it will be interesting to see the Zorro II vs. Zorro III diferences with this card.
       

posts 20