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Adding More Keyboards (V4SA)

Martin White

Posts 85
04 Feb 2020 13:06


Is there anything that us, the end user can do to aid with getting more keyboards working? I don't consider randomly buying keyboards, testing them and sending them back to be a valid answer incidentally :)
 
I more mean, is there any USB info that we can dump somehow, or perhaps a program that can be run to "sniff out" the USB communications between the keyboard and the host to see if it is doing anything non-standard or unusual?
 
Some of us are more technical than others I guess? I could potentially split out the USB signals and measure timings and stuff on a scope? Even a packet analyser? Something I've considered doing for other projects in the past and bought the "breakout" components but never did it.
 
Failing all of that, is it only Gunnar that works on this side of the hardware or others too? Thinking here that maybe keyboards could be sent to people?
 
In an ideal world it would be great for the basic features of any USB keyboard that does not require an exotic driver to "just work" but I realise this isn't an ideal world. And I also realise that if a keyboard has weird and wonderful stuff on it like LED displays and things then that's not going to work either.


Martin White

Posts 85
05 Feb 2020 13:03


SO, is there really NOTHING that anyone can do, save really annoy Amazon by buying lots of keyboards and sending them back?
 
Will V4SA ever support non BootP keyboards and mice? I looked through the keyboard list last night and looked each up on the internet. There isn't a single one that I would actually want to use, including the Red Dragon that I own. Most are cheap and nasty or really old.
 
Keyboard and mouse support is really overshadowing everything else for me at the moment.

[edit] Just to add that with BIOS based PCs all but resigned to history these days in favour of UEFI, new devices that explicitly support boot protocol or bios mode are likely to become a thing of the past too, or even rarer than they are now since UEFI supports the loading of drivers for simple things such as keyboard and mouse. So V4SA will end up stuck with legacy devices.

For mice this all gets solved if DB9 suport is implemented (re-enabled?) on the left DB9 socket because then we have the option to use an HID2AMI device, essentially deffering the USB issue to someone else and allowing us to use all the mice we wish. Admittedly USB is much neater though and I'd prefer that.


Chris Holzapfel

Posts 51
05 Feb 2020 15:15


This one works nicely: EXTERNAL LINK   
    This mouse works fine while the Microsoft Basic and many others even quite old ones I own doesn't.
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    I hope I can use a real Amiga Keyboard in the future, directly with an simple adapter (external Amiga keyboards) or for the 500/600/1200 keaboards with Keyrah or the USB conversion kit for Amiga 500 keyboard (Tynemouth Software).


Martin White

Posts 85
05 Feb 2020 15:42


Yes, that keyboard is the only one I'm tempted by if it wasn't for the rainbow LEDs :)

I have that Hama mouse - in fact, it was me that reported it working. It's not too bad.

But none of this is the point. It's not about selecting 1 working keyboard from the few that are available, it's about what, if anything can be done to help get all but the most unusual of keyboards to work. And I think the reliance on bootp is likely to be a real problem - but of course I have no clue what's really involved in getting rid of that reliance.

PS: I spoke to AmigaKit a few weekends ago and the Keyrah v2b would do what you want with the internal Amiga keyboards. But you do then sacrifice the V4SA case and get into all the issues of mounting and so on.


Chris Holzapfel

Posts 51
05 Feb 2020 19:30


Ok, thats of course a point. For the internal Amiga keyboards I already have the external keyboard case from iMica (Checkmate 1500) project. With that and the mentioned usb adapter boards  you can use it just like any other yet  compatible keyboards. For now its ok, development is going on, there has so much already be done that this for now is not the most urgent thing to do. Im quite sure that the Team has this matter on their list sooner or later.


Ray Couzens

Posts 26
12 Mar 2020 08:50


Hi Vampire fans.

This is a very useful topic. Having put my name down for a V4SA, have been reading as much as I can to work out the best keyboard and mouse combination from the current limited, but tested selection.  I have already ordered the LOGILINK ID0162 mouse, but cannot yet decide on the keyboard.  Probably best to wait until the V4 is ready to ship before deciding. 

I realise the Apollo team are very busy and working on keyboard compatibility is most likely on a TO-DO list. 

I'm wondering if people have tried other keyboards, not yet on the tested list, and what success they have had with these.  That said, I know much work has been done to update the Apollo Wiki page, so this question is probably already answered.

From the current set of tested keyboards, I like the AJAZZ AK33 and the Rii RK104, but they don't have a number pad as per the original Amiga keyboards.  Maybe I don't really need this, and could get one of these keyboards until the V4 supports more types.  Decisions, decisions.

Ray


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4553
12 Mar 2020 09:20


I have here like 5 keyboards with numpad, (Logotech, Cherry, Manhattan..) and 3 without (Redragon, Ajazz, Rii).

Personally, I prefer the keybaords without numpad a lot
because they need less space on my desktop.
And they are AMIGA like, A600 like :-)



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1631
12 Mar 2020 09:34


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

I have here like 5 keyboards with numpad, (Logotech, Cherry, Manhattan..) and 3 without (Redragon, Ajazz, Rii).
 
  Personally, I prefer the keybaords without numpad a lot
  because they need less space on my desktop.
  And they are AMIGA like, A600 like :-)
 

Anyone that does extensive text edit or number crunching would disagree.

Plus it eliminates many simulation games and even some productivity.

What is best for one, is not for the other.

Tested keyboard list with marks on shortened ones.


Ray Couzens

Posts 26
12 Mar 2020 09:45


I did look at the Manhattan, which seems a nice keyboard but unfortunately for me, it is a German keyboard - I'm lazy and should learn another language ;-)

Yes, the tested gaming keyboards are A600 like, and it's probably just me being used to the A500/A1200 keyboards.


Nixus Minimax

Posts 415
12 Mar 2020 10:34


Ray Couzens wrote:

I did look at the Manhattan, which seems a nice keyboard but unfortunately for me, it is a German keyboard

A German keyboard is much better, it gives you all the letters the English keyboard has plus such amazing letters as ÄÖÜß! :o)



Ray Couzens

Posts 26
12 Mar 2020 11:42


Nixus Minimax wrote:

  A German keyboard is much better, it gives you all the letters the English keyboard has plus such amazing letters as ÄÖÜß! :o)
 

LOL.  This is very true!


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1631
12 Mar 2020 11:46


Nixus Minimax wrote:

Ray Couzens wrote:

  I did look at the Manhattan, which seems a nice keyboard but unfortunately for me, it is a German keyboard

 
  A German keyboard is much better, it gives you all the letters the English keyboard has plus such amazing letters as ÄÖÜß! :o)
 

More localised KBs are welcome. Loriano Pagni used to do that for CherryMX KBs, so I can say its amazing to have Serbian Amiga CherryMX USB KBD too ... and not just QWERTY*QWERTZ :)



Ray Couzens

Posts 26
12 Mar 2020 13:02


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
  More localised KBs are welcome. Loriano Pagni used to do that for CherryMX KBs, so I can say its amazing to have Serbian Amiga CherryMX USB KBD too ... and not just QWERTY*QWERTZ :)
 

I totally agree.  Manufacturers need to look further than their own country and language.  Even if they charged a little more so they could cater for keycaps supporting multiple languages it would be good.  I suspect the costs are very high though.

I guess, if the keyboard itself was good, and demand high enough etc... I wonder, 3D printer hmmm.


posts 13