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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

1080p With Vampirepage  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 

Vladimir Repcak

Posts 327
07 Jun 2020 03:52


Henrich:

30 invisible points on the sides is much better than fractional scaling on only few pixels. So, as log as you get sharp unscaled pixels in native resolution of monitor, we're good.
 
  Did you have to manually mess with P96 mode lines parameters ? Or is there some default working setting in P96, perhaps ?
 
  If I sent you a build, could you test various resolutions ? I have a requester that runs above CyberGraphX/Intuition that allows resolution choice, and on WinUAE I can get it working up to 1680x1050.
  I have no reason to believe that my 3D engine wouldn't work in 1920x1080. Screen dimensions are just variables and there's really no difference between 1050 lines (from 1680x1050) to 1080 lines (from 1920x1080).
  I just tested it in about dozen resolutions from 320x200 up to 1680x1050. Somehow, 1920x1080 doesn't show up under WinUAE and it's bugging me...
 
  Framerate, however, is a different matter entirely :- )))))))
 
  Who said we can't push the bloody HW beyond its limits :) ?
 
  Player Ship, that I finally finished modeling today after over 3 weeks, looks pretty darn sharp in 1680x1050 :)


Vladimir Repcak

Posts 327
07 Jun 2020 04:22


Let's use my benchmarks from 640x480 and extend them to 1920x1080 so we can get some pretty close estimate of how Vampire can handle such resolution.

For starters, I would only extend the horizontal window from 640 to full width of 1920 - e.g. the 3D viewport would be 1920x480.

Bottom 600 lines could be used for HUD - stuff like map or whatever games usually present, that is almost entirely static.

Thus, the only stage of the pipeline that would take more time is PixelFill - by a factor of 1920/640 = 3

Since right now it takes around 32.55 % of a frame time, 32.55 * 3 = 97.66 % of a frame time.

So, since I keep 20 fps lock now at 640x480, in such viewport I would get rid of the lock and reach between 15-20 fps.

That's actually not bad at all.

And dropping from 32-bit color depth to just 8 bits (256 colors) would more than compensate for 3x more pixels for the ClearScreen stage at start of the frame.

So, 1920x1080 is actually totally useable even for 3D games on V4.


Henrich Raduska

Posts 29
07 Jun 2020 06:11


Vladimir Repcak wrote:

  30 invisible points on the sides is much better than fractional scaling on only few pixels. So, as log as you get sharp unscaled pixels in native resolution of monitor, we're good.
 
  Did you have to manually mess with P96 mode lines parameters ? Or is there some default working setting in P96, perhaps ?

These invisible dots were only the result of scaling and the image was not completely sharp. When I set the monitor's native resolution, the monitor itself resizes the image to unnatural. Maybe to avoid black borders in the TV signal. So I had to set it manually.
Yes, I set the parameters in P96prefs manually and tested every change, even a small one. Some of them are also affected by color depth, for example, what works for 32bit may not work for 8bit or 24bit.
If you want, I can test your SW on V1200 for you. You can contact me on gmail. (name.surname)


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 07:24


@Henrich
Can you share a screen of P96mode tool with your working 1080p resolution parameters?
Have you set a memsize on vampiregfx video driver?
 


Henrich Raduska

Posts 29
07 Jun 2020 07:56


I can't insert a photo here and I have nowhere to put it on the internet to insert a permanent link. I can email it to you or try to put it on FB.
  But it's just two numbers, so maybe it will help if I write it here.
  For 1920x1080 it was enough to set the frame horiz. to 1984 and vert. to 1082. The other parameters do not matter, you can set them to zero. Pixel clock must be set so that vert. frequency was at least 24Hz or more. It works with my LG monitor. Other monitors (from the ones I've tested) that require at least 48Hz won't display anything. Too bad, the P96 interlace mode doesn't work, it would work on almost every monitor.


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 08:03


Syncpolarity is checked?
 
  Ho.. Yes!!! It works on my Telefunken!!!
Wonderful!!!!


Henrich Raduska

Posts 29
07 Jun 2020 08:08


Checked or not, do not matter.

:-)



Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 08:10


Just a little problem. Workbench menu bar is cut on top (the cutted part appears on bottom of the screen)
I think it's a frame setting


Henrich Raduska

Posts 29
07 Jun 2020 08:19


No, the monitor does it itself - it scales the image when it detects 1080p (or 720p). You need to switch the aspect ratio from 16: 9 to "just scan" or something similar in the monitor settings.
    Try to read a few posts above, where I write about this strange phenomenon.
  But each monitor may respond a little differently, depending on its firmware. Try increasing the vertical frame to 1084 or more. Or use P96presf "edit" button to find correct values.


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 08:25


Resolved.
Perfect framesize for me is 1984 x 1088
Truly amazing display.
Maybe I will do a video about it
Thank you!!


Vladimir Repcak

Posts 327
07 Jun 2020 09:34


That's awesome news your Telefunken is configured for 1080p.

Looks like I will be busy tomorrow working on a test build for 1920*1080@32-bit

Any bets if I get more than 8 fps in full screen Heimdall scene :) ?


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 17:08


I made a little video showing how a 1080p is handled on vampire (sorry for my awful English)
EXTERNAL LINK 
Many thanks to Henrich Raduska who helped me finding the right values on P96.

VladR: I'd be very happy to see the progress of your truly impressive engine!




Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 108
07 Jun 2020 18:10


Vlad released another update ? I got one a loooong time ago. Video ?

Yes, i also paid for it. But havent seen anything working yet :-(



Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 19:23


It's up to Vlad to release info on his game. I can say that I tried his test engine on my v1200 some time ago. And it was very promising.


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 108
07 Jun 2020 19:58


I did get a file from Vlad myself. A Gt.exe file. After 20-30 secs, i got some text on a screen, but nothing happened.


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 486
07 Jun 2020 20:06


Did you report to him the scores?
Ps: we are off topic here, better go to his game's thread


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 108
07 Jun 2020 20:13


He didnt ask for any scores. Its a plain V4 with 7383 rc1
Did you receive a playable version ?
And Yes, we are off topic :-)

Sorry guys !



Vladimir Repcak

Posts 327
07 Jun 2020 21:25


It's not entirely offtopic. Switching the game to support 640x480 basically introduced over 6 weeks of delay due to unforeseen issues with 3dsmax modeling and exporting and eventually affected physics, environment worldspace and everything else (I will post more info in my game thread).

It's only because of that higher resolution support that we can now talk about 1920x1080 on Vampire.

And yeah, I understand it's ridiculous to expect puny 85 MHz CPU to do anything 3D in that resolution, but as I said earlier, if we restrict the 3D viewport to 1920x480 (with 2D HUD/map/whatever taking bottom 600 scanlines), there's only going to be about ~0.5 frame additional cost (Pixel Fill). The downgrade to 256 colors will take care of 3x more pixels to clear each frame also.

Of course, high-performance racing games aren't going to be a good match, but other genres that are slow-paced, could entirely be playable in FullHD :)

I mean, I played Dungeon Siege 1 on my PC for over 500 hours in a framerate of ~12 fps. Space Hulk turn-based strategy - it was actually under 10 fps. Also about hundred hours.

All we need to figure out is the scene complexity that results in 10/12/15 fps and build a game around that.




Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 108
07 Jun 2020 21:41


Thanks for the clarification Vlad !
Can we expect a new version to test in the near future ?



Vladimir Repcak

Posts 327
07 Jun 2020 22:24


Roger Andre Lassen wrote:

Thanks for the clarification Vlad !
  Can we expect a new version to test in the near future ?
 

Yeah, I hope even today. Just woke up, had a coffee and started working.

I will see if I can reenable the previous demo's environment and quickly tweak it to run under the changed worldspace forced by high-poly player ship (546 triangles).

I think my last build didn't allow to run higher than 640x480, but don't really recall - I do anywhere between 25-300 builds in a week, so it's impossible to keep track...

It won't be 8-bit, but 24-bit bitdepth, so if it will even run that high, it will crawl for sure (hopefully FPS and not SPF :) ), but this is mostly to see if it's even possible :)


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