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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Q's About V1200page  1 2 3 

Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4897
22 Nov 2019 14:03


Jamie Chapman wrote:

I hope so because lots of people will have FastATA and this is  better solution, if you already have it 

Or they sell the FastATA and regain some money.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
22 Nov 2019 15:33


Kyle Blake wrote:

    Assuming Vampire IDE works by replacing scsi.device, it should be possible to disable it and use what the amiga already has?
   

 
  Nope. V4 Does not have it. Vamp was built to use SD card and one fast EIDE device, not to replace Amiga with CDROM.
 
  You can do it by putting IDEFix 99/Buffered IDE 2-4x splitter to Vamp EIDE, but CDROM will kill the HDD speed.
 
  I decided to pack it in ISO and transfer using SDCard. No slow CD ROM Access, SSD access speed time + Vamp 18MB/s.
 
  I hope v6+ models with come with two EIDE devices with no slow down on CD ROM/DVD RW side.
 


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
22 Nov 2019 18:53


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
Jamie Chapman wrote:

  I hope so because lots of people will have FastATA and this is  better solution, if you already have it 
 

 
  Or they sell the FastATA and regain some money.
 

 
  Not a chance on earth. You saw my speeds I posted yesterday.
 
  On CF card (Forgot brand): 9.1MB/sec
  On Philips CDRW: 2.7MB/sec
 
  I need my CDRW drive, so I won't sell my FastATA in order to let you cripple my speeds with a mandatory vampire IDE. Just let us turn it off and use what is better for us.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4897
22 Nov 2019 19:05


Kyle Blake wrote:

  On CF card (Forgot brand): 9.1MB/sec
  On Philips CDRW: 2.7MB/sec
   
  I need my CDRW drive, so I won't sell my FastATA in order to let you cripple my speeds with a mandatory vampire IDE.

 
Can you help me understand what do you mean by "cripple"?
 
To me its clear that FASTATA is a lot slower than VAMPIRE-IDE.
 


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
22 Nov 2019 19:45


You have said it yourself, running 2 drives on one connector, speed is limited to the speed of the slowest drive.
   
    With FASTATA I have two connectors - one for each drive.
   
    I put CF card on primary master, I put CDRW on secondary master, I get maximum speed for both drives.
   
    Vampire is only faster if I give up CDRW. With CDRW attached, it is almost as slow as gayle. This is a dramatic downgrade from what I already have.

Other alternative, I go buy some squirrel SCSI, some ancient SCSI CD drive, and now I have an ugly wart hanging outside of my case. All to free up vampire-ide for fast speed.

No.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
22 Nov 2019 20:16


Why do you need CD? At first I was stuborn as you, but first prob was finding the case for SSD and DVDRW. I missed Checkmate. Double port solution is Idefix 99 buffered splitter.
 
  Other solution is simple: convert CDDA to mp3, games and app installs to ISO - LZX compress and transfer, get ISO mounter and unpack. Backups copy as files or LHA/LZX pack with Amiga Dopus.
 
  You can use SDCard Amiga formatted and Dopus in WinUAE with LZX/LHA or FAT16-32 SDCard where you would archieve everything in UAE (for archive speed to Amiga) before copying to.
 
  Takes some time, but its good. Fast. Reliable.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4897
22 Nov 2019 20:19


Kyle Blake wrote:

    You have said it yourself, running 2 drives on one connector, speed is limited to the speed of the slowest drive.
 

   
What model is your CD Drive?
What PIO mode does it maximum support?
   
 
Kyle Blake wrote:
   
    I put CF card on primary master, I put CDRW on secondary master, I get maximum speed for both drives.
   

 
But what exactly makes you think that FASTATA reaches maximum speed at all?
The score you posted look not that maximum to me.
   
Maybe we should NOT guess around what the maximum is but instead look for facts. What do you think? ;-)
Do you know what max mode does your CDDrive supports?
Normally most CD-ROMs should support PIO4 = 16MB/sec.
 
 


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
22 Nov 2019 20:25


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Why do you need CD? At first I was stuborn as you, but first prob was finding the case for SSD and DVDRW. I missed Checkmate. Double port solution is Idefix 99 buffered splitter.
   
    Other solution is simple: convert CDDA to mp3, games and app installs to ISO - LZX compress and transfer, get ISO mounter and unpack. Backups copy as files or LHA/LZX pack with Amiga Dopus.
 
  You can use SDCard Amiga formatted and Dopus in WinUAE with LZX/LHA or FAT16-32 SDCard where you would archieve everything in UAE (for archive speed to Amiga) before copying to.
   
    Takes some time, but its good. Fast. Reliable.

For the same reason I use AmigaOS, for the same reason I use a CRT monitor, ball mouse, and floppy disks, same reason I want a 68K CPU and why I want a really fast one:

Because.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
22 Nov 2019 20:30


Fully understood. For same reason, I wish v6+ have also two ports and Vamp cases have place for two drives. As well as clockport, PCMCIA, MIDI and Audio Chinches please. DB9 for mouse, USB for printer and mass storage too.
 
  But that is not on sale now, a bit of patience.
 
  Compared to other accelerators, you will find Vampire feature rich. Its small FPGA board after all.


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
22 Nov 2019 20:30


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Compared to other accelerators, you will find Vampire feature rich. Its small FPGA board after all.

Very happy for vampire to have this feature! However, I want a feature for the feature: turn off.

Outside I have a very impressive old car, Citroen, cost 1000. Has air-conditioning and CD Player.

Air conditioning has special feature called "turn off". This is good when I want to be warm, like in the winter.

CD Player has special feature called "turn off". This is good when I want quiet, like when I have a headache from seeing something stupid my prime minister said.

Vampire IDE would also be nice to have this "turn off" feature.

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  What model is your CD Drive?
  What PIO mode does it maximum support?
     
  What exactly makes you think that FASTATA reaches maximum speed at all?
     
  Maybe we should NOT guess around but instead talk facts?
  What do you think? ;-)
 
  Do you know what max mode does your CDDrive supports?
  Normally most CD-ROMs should support PIO4 = 16MB/sec.
 
 

 
  Were (you and everyone else who says it) just guessing when saying CD-ROM will limit speed in the first place?
 
  I can only repeat back what I have already "learned" from this forum, which now you cast doubt on, that that happens.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4897
22 Nov 2019 20:32


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

I wish v6+ have also two ports

There is no such thing as V6 planned.

V4 is the latest and greatest.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
22 Nov 2019 20:35


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

        There is no such thing as V6 planned.
       
        V4 is the latest and greatest.
     

     
    True if we jump from V4 to ASIC :)))))) 
     
      I will support V4 success,which can only lead to v6, as it happened with v1 and v2. Natami was failure/success to testing MX board and having experience, but nice start, loved it even when it was 070 plus 3D.
 
  Surely there is newer Cyclone and fatter FPGAs tested. Check feedback. Amiga keyboard port too :) And floppy at least external HD 1.76 or option to use any Catweasel, even Catweasel in FPGA license.
 
  MX had a nice port list, keep on that, not only DIGITAL-VIDEO (while modern and nice)
 
  serial port, parallel port, ps / 2 keyboard, ps / 2 mouse, floppy disk, joystick ports
  31kHz video out, internal option port for 15kHz video out, 15kHz video in
  audio in, audio out
  SyncZorro, PCI, IDE, 3.5 ", CompactFlash IDE
  onboard LAN and USBv2 PCI expansion chips


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
22 Nov 2019 20:44


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

      True if we jump from V4 to ASIC :)))))) 
       
        I will support V4 success,which can only lead to v6, as it happened with v1 and v2. Natami was failure/success to testing MX board and having experience, but nice start, loved it even when it was 070 plus 3D.
   
    Surely there is newer Cyclone and fatter FPGAs tested. Check feedback. Amiga keyboard port too :) And floppy at least external HD 1.76 or option to use any Catweasel, even Catweasel in FPGA license.
   
    MX had a nice port list, keep on that, not only DIGITAL-VIDEO (while modern and nice)
   
    serial port, parallel port, ps / 2 keyboard, ps / 2 mouse, floppy disk, joystick ports
    31kHz video out, internal option port for 15kHz video out, 15kHz video in
    audio in, audio out
    SyncZorro, PCI, IDE, 3.5 ", CompactFlash IDE
    onboard LAN and USBv2 PCI expansion chips
 

 
  What you describe there is the only standalone vampire I'd ever be interested in. Something in ATX formfactor case with all the real IO ports.
 
  That was the disappointment of seeing V4 standalone, not able to use all my amiga peripherals with it. I have a lot. Drawing tablets, MIDI gear etc. I rip floppy discs with my machine for people too.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
22 Nov 2019 20:53


Best option for you is to put V2 in 1200 or similar. A lot of external add ons will continue to work.
 
  In this case, if I was you, I would buy Majstas V2+ for 1200
  and put idefix buffered EIDE on Vamp EIDE and connect fastest HD as master and CD as slave (you could do up to 4 devices if you have appropriate case). Should not affect SD Card speed.
  If CD can do 20MB/s all will do 18MB/s. If you have slower model, speed will be a bit down and way better then with "FastATA" you have, as described.
 
  I will buy v4sa and I am well aware its a bit expanded accelerator, not an ATX/ITX board.
   
    I hope for that next.
   
    But lets live and enjoy V2 for 1200, V4SA and V4 for Classics.


Ronnie Beck

Posts 37
23 Nov 2019 16:31


Kyle Blake wrote:

I can only repeat back what I have already "learned" from this forum, which now you cast doubt on, that that happens.

Or what you missunderstood.  There isn't a penalty paid for connecting a CDROM to the IDE port along side your SSD/CF Card.  So long as both the CDROM and CF Card support the same faster PIO modes.  This has been explained before, at least once by me.  I tested this again.  ON the V4, I have both a CF card and CDROM connected to the same IDE connector.  I get 10.9Mb/s from my CF Card.  If I disconnect the CDROM, I get the same 10.9Mb/s from the CF card.

It is about the PIO modes and not the fact that reading a CD is slower than flash memory from the CF card.


Kyle Blake
(Needs Verification)
Posts 108/ 1
23 Nov 2019 19:00


That's a good clarification, thanks. But people were not clear on this, they spoke as though the limiting factor was the MB/s of the slowest device. If PIO mode is the deciding factor then of course everything is fine.




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
23 Nov 2019 19:15


Kyle Blake wrote:

    That's a good clarification, thanks. But people were not clear on this, they spoke as though the limiting factor was the MB/s of the slowest device. If PIO mode is the deciding factor then of course everything is fine.
   

   
    Hereby, PIO is the transfer limit tech :) Same limits applied to EIDE anywhere, we just a bit forgot it since SATA,USB has made us laisy and removed the limits.
   
    Newer the drive is, lesser the "weakest chain" effect is.
   
    As I also said, if DVD-RW can do 18Mb/s, its all fine and dandy.
 
  As well, that is only thing Gunnar asked directly (PIO mode)
 
  Glad its all sorted out and happy. Surely, things can improve but every hardware is "as-is". FPGA can improve some things, but these arent external I/O. Its great fast IDE is featured. 


Jean-Baptiste Bolcato

Posts 53
25 Nov 2019 18:53


Interesting, will try this shortly.
So for the recommended DVD drive by Stephen Jones for the checkmate (500 Vampire - or 1200 soon I hope!), it was the LG GS40...
Can you guys check if it's fast enough? Here is the link to the specs:
EXTERNAL LINK  I cannot spot the PIO mode but it seems to say 150M/s, being latest SATA and all. Does that get downgraded by the SATA2IDE converters?
Cheers!
JBB


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1719
25 Nov 2019 20:57


Sata devs (my future ssd, your DVD)
    Should downgrade to fastest ide, but please invest on hq conveter connector
 
  So no 150mbps just 18.
  No 600 on SSD, just 18 and fast access.
 
  But lightspeed in Amigaland.
 
  SD card Is not on ide bus


Ronnie Beck
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 191
26 Nov 2019 14:50


Jean-Baptiste Bolcato wrote:

Can you guys check if it's fast enough? Here is the link to the specs:
EXTERNAL LINK  I cannot spot the PIO mode but it seems to say 150M/s, being latest SATA and all. Does that get downgraded by the SATA2IDE converters?

PIO Mode isn't relevant to SATA.  That is only relevant to the IDE->SATA converter.  The Apollo Wiki lists a few which are known to work. Most of which use the JMicon JM20330 chip for the IDE->SATA conversion.  This supports PIO modes 0-4.  So no troubles there.

I picked up a random cheap ASUS DVD drive for 15 and an IDE->Sata converter.  This just works.  I would be really surprised if anyone found a working IDE->Sata converter that didn't support PIO modes 0-4.

posts 41page  1 2 3