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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Lock-ups On Floating Point Renders?page  1 2 

Samuel Devulder

Posts 220
08 Aug 2019 22:36


The "strange thing" you reported was reproducible in the exact same place. The freeze of lightwave is largely random. The two events are unrelated I think. BTW does the "strange thing" still occurs (because the thread you reported to doesn't seem to contain any kind of definitive answer about it)


Rod March

Posts 105
09 Aug 2019 03:09


Simo Koivukoski wrote:

  Could you please test with RC2 EXE, it has fpsp080 related updates (end of page 2 on thread). Flasher EXE should work without any issues, if your file does not get corrupted. e.g invalid max transfer value with HDD.

Very happy to give this a try, will report on my progress.


Rod March

Posts 105
11 Aug 2019 13:07


I can tentatively say 2.12 RC2 has solved the problem.

A render that normally freezes within an hour has been running for nearly 48 hours now and is still going.

How good is Apollo team! You guys rock!!




Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
21 Aug 2019 21:25


Rod, did you try to render a sequence of frames in Lightwave.FP for example ??

Let us know if is working and rendering each frame. I love our Vampires and I use FPU a lot and now having my Toaster board ready for more renders..........my Amiga will be on fire again :)


Rod March

Posts 105
22 Aug 2019 00:23


Yes, the 2.12 RC2 x10 rendered floating-point for 60hrs straight without a problem. (once you're on to LW 4.0 + it's floating point only anyway, only 3.5 still has an integer version)
 
Now running x12, haven't run that overnight yet, but I've had no problems over shorter runs.


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
22 Aug 2019 03:27


awesome Rod, thanks for the info. Time to  update my firmware  then :)


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
11 Nov 2019 02:43


Ok, finally I did install everything and I can render sequences of frames with the new beta. It took me a while because I am busy at work.

BUT....... ESC can't abort renders or escape :(. I have to restart or kill Lightwave. Same thing is happening when I start Lightwave from VideoToaster.

It is happening to you guys ?




Jim Drew
Learn who I am!
Posts 67/ 1
11 Nov 2019 08:17


You're going to find that Lightwave and a hand full of other Amiga programs that can use the FPU require IEEE compliant 80 bit precision.  It's been known for a long time that with WinUAE you have to use the Soft-Float option when running Lightwave (and every other ray tracer).  Mac emulations are the same way too.  Soft-Float does a software based FPU calculation instead of using the x86's FPU to do the 68K's FPU instruction.  There is a rounding difference between the two CPUs and that is what causes the precision error.




Nixus Minimax

Posts 341
11 Nov 2019 09:58


Jim Drew wrote:

You're going to find that Lightwave and a hand full of other Amiga programs that can use the FPU require IEEE compliant 80 bit precision.

How does this align with:

Rod March wrote:
I can tentatively say 2.12 RC2 has solved the problem.
 
  A render that normally freezes within an hour has been running for nearly 48 hours now and is still going.




Markus B

Posts 100
11 Nov 2019 10:52


Maybe the 2.12 FPU has been modified in a way that it's "precise" enough?


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
11 Nov 2019 12:39


Uhmmm well, I think Apollo team is doing an amazing job. Vampire started without FPU emulation and now we are almost there is just this small issue and Lightwave will run great. For me is the application that I use most of the time and this is why I did buy my Vampire.

I am pretty sure in the final CORE 2.12 (fingers crossed) the team can fix this issue.


Jim Drew
Learn who I am!
Posts 67/ 1
11 Nov 2019 19:32


Markus B wrote:

Maybe the 2.12 FPU has been modified in a way that it's "precise" enough?

Yeah, I am guessing that Gunnar figured out whatever instruction is causing this particular issue and made some fix for it.  Toni had to make the soft-float option in WinUAE in order to get the FPU emulation to be true IEEE 80 bit compliant.  I ran into this exact same problem when I wrote FUSION-PC.  I was using the x86's FPU to emulate the 68040 FPU instructions, and found there was a small difference in rounding.  Using one FPU to emulate another is certainly a fast way to do it, but if the results are wrong then it doesn't do you any good.  I ended up using the x86 FPU and then checking the rounding boundary afterwards, and correcting it as needed.




Rod March

Posts 105
11 Nov 2019 22:11


I can't comment on rounding issues, but Lightwave renders and problem-free for me with the latest Gold 2.12 (it really does need to be the latest one though).
   
No lock-ups, no funky results (that I have noticed), I can cancel renders at any time.
   
Santiago, I suspect your ESC-not-working problem is related to the keyboard itself or some other part of your system. You might want to try CTRL-ALT-F10, which will quit the whole switcher interface  (if you are running LW though the VT card).
   
A bit drastic to just stop a render, but less hassle than a total restart, and it may get you closer to figuring out your core problem.


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
12 Nov 2019 00:19


Rod, thanks for your help, as always.
 
  Maybe your are right. I saw that on my numerical keys, the number 0 dont work.
 
  I will try another keyboard and check to be a 100% sure.
 
  Everything else is working great with Lightwave now, I agree.


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
16 Nov 2019 11:46


Rod, I hate you :) ahha just kidding.
 
  You were sooo right. Damn. A4000 keyboard has 2 small cuts on the Fs keys, top part. So, from F1 to F7 included ESC they dont work.
 
  My A2000 keyboard needs to replace those Space Invaders keys but I cant find them online. If somebody can point me where they are will be great.
 
  ARghhh I cant wait to have everything running. Always something happens.
 
  Rod, thanks again for your help. These keyboards are second hand and you never know.......
 
  Thanks guys again.
 
 


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
18 Nov 2019 19:38


ok, Amiga 2000 keyboard is fixed and now I can use ESC key to abort lightwave renders.

Amiga 4000 keyboard needs a new A500 membrane. It is on my way now :)

Another test. Creating previews forcing Lightwave to use SAGA. This error is happening on MorphOS too so I think is something to do with Lightwave internally because nobody has been fixing this error.

Creating animation previews in Lightwave, once is done, Layout interface is just gray color with not geometry there. It is just a plain interface. You can play the animation preview, but it wont show anything there.

It was  happening with Picasso96 on WinUAE long time ago, but it was fixed there so you can use lightwave normally.

This has nothing to do with Vampire or any core, but is a common problem and maybe if there is a way to debug it or help, or together we can fix it, will be awesome.

Any ideas ?


Rod March

Posts 105
18 Nov 2019 23:08


I could never get Lighwave to run properly on RTG, so sounds like you're a step ahead of me already.


Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
18 Nov 2019 23:34


Hey Rod. I use NewMode to promote the screen.
There you can select which resolution do you want to use Layout or Modeler and from there, it will work with your RTG Vampire system.

You can download NewMode from Aminet. It needs to be in WBStartup.

Let me know if you need help, but is very straight forward.

Will be cool if we can find a way to debug it what kind of screen lightwave is forcing to use.




Santiago Gutierrez

Posts 40
19 Nov 2019 12:14


I took some screenshots and using WinUAE in debug mode here is what I have. Maybe helps, maybe not.

EXTERNAL LINK 
I dont know how we can check what kind of screenshot Lighwave is opening when the preview is calculated.

My bad, it is happening in WinUAE too. So, I guess, RTG doesnt support this screenmode and it is a general problem for all the platforms.

Any ideas ?


Rod March

Posts 105
19 Nov 2019 22:38


I had new mode, couldn't get it to play nice.

More than that, I'm not interested in running multiple screens, so I kind of like using the native chipset.

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