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Gurra G
Posts 3
18 Aug 2016 23:01
| Have any plans been made to produce a card for the later bigbox amigas ? I guess quite a few people would be happy(atleast i know i would) if one was produced/announced since the prices for the old accelerators for theese systems are just silly atm up in the ranges of 700 euro or more which is abit much for the regular old computer hobbyists.
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Szyk Cech
Posts 191
19 Aug 2016 12:37
| gurra g wrote:
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Have any plans been made to produce a card for the later bigbox amigas ?
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AFAIK: It is planed, but in distant future. They working now on other board (V500), and next will be V1200 (later in this year?)...
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Johannes Schäfer
Posts 47
19 Aug 2016 17:06
| My opinion today is, that a high price Arria 10 Vampire doesn´t make sense for A3000/4000. They only make sense for A500 and A1200 and A2000. Well, you may think I am crazy, but wait.
For A500 and A1200 there is nearly no better graphic solution than that provided originally. For A2000 there are slow grapic cards mit 2MB and 1025x768 resolution. Vampire will provide much more CPU power, far better graphic, SD-Card, DIGITAL-VIDEO and so on. Thinks nearly impossible on that machines (Zorro II is a bottleneck on A2000)
But A3000 and A4000 are rare machines. Most of them are fully upgraded with 68060, RAM, SCSI, Graphic card, network card and so on. This is history. But at the time you add an Arria 10 Vampire, you dont need this. Would you really use an A4000 as power adaptor for an Vampire 4000?
Some months ago I thought like you, hoping for a Vampire in my A4000. But today I dont like the thought, that 25 year old beloved hardware would be sacrificed.
So here is the question: What special thing from your A4000 or A3000 do you need after you upgraded your Amiga with an Vampire?
If there is really any need for Zorro III in future, than there should be an A4000 Zorro Riser slot on the standalone board. But my personal wish would be, that the standalone board would fit into the A1200 case (there will come new A1200 cases and keyboards from kickstarter, so no Original A1200 has to be sacrificed).
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Johannes Schäfer
Posts 47
19 Aug 2016 17:09
| double post
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Henryk Richter
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 128/ 1
19 Aug 2016 18:59
| Johannes Schäfer wrote:
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My opinion today is, that a high price Arria 10 Vampire doesn´t make sense for A3000/4000. They only make sense for A500 and A1200 and A2000. Well, you may think I am crazy, but wait.
For A500 and A1200 there is nearly no better graphic solution than that provided originally. For A2000 there are slow grapic cards mit 2MB and 1025x768 resolution. Vampire will provide much more CPU power, far better graphic, SD-Card, DIGITAL-VIDEO and so on. Thinks nearly impossible on that machines (Zorro II is a bottleneck on A2000)
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Good catch. Loads of storage via CF/SD-cards, (higher quality) Sound and Network attached to Serial Ports (quite likely SPI). There isn't much of essential add-ons for which a Tower or Desktop would be necessary. And of course, there were millions of A500s sold, readily available as second-hand if there should be the need.
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Michal Warzecha
Posts 209
19 Aug 2016 19:09
| In my opinion Aria will be great for standalone system. Our beloved computers get briliant turbo cards now and I think it's enough for them. They're classic old machines, if standalone system will come, they should rest a little, We can start killing brand new hardware with Aria inside :)
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Marcus Gerards
Posts 58
20 Aug 2016 12:09
| Fast FPGA card for A3/4000? For (as usual) this depends on core features (MMU or not). I'd buy 2-4 cards (no MMU /MMU), provided that ZII/ZIII cards with DMA still work.
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6219
20 Aug 2016 12:28
| Marcus Gerards wrote:
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Fast FPGA card for A3/4000?
For (as usual) this depends on core features (MMU or not). I'd buy 2-4 cards (no MMU /MMU), provided that ZII/ZIII cards with DMA still work.
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I wonder who might spread this nonsense rumor about DMA over Zorro not working?
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Niclas A
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 219
20 Aug 2016 12:50
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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I wonder who might spread this nonsense rumor about DMA over Zorro not working?
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Maybe not working. But hard to get stable.. or something like that.
EXTERNAL LINK
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Wawa T
Posts 695
20 Aug 2016 13:09
| Niclas A wrote:
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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I wonder who might spread this nonsense rumor about DMA over Zorro not working?
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Maybe not working. But hard to get stable.. or something like that.
EXTERNAL LINK
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From what thomas writes it seems it could be well solved within the fpga core.
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Marcus Gerards
Posts 58
20 Aug 2016 16:07
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Marcus Gerards wrote:
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Fast FPGA card for A3/4000?
For (as usual) this depends on core features (MMU or not). I'd buy 2-4 cards (no MMU /MMU), provided that ZII/ZIII cards with DMA still work.
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I wonder who might spread this nonsense rumor about DMA over Zorro not working?
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I don't even know if it's a rumor - don't you get paranoid; not everyone asking questions is trying to discredit your effort. :)
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Amiga 4Life
Posts 101
20 Aug 2016 19:54
| @Gurra G
ultimate ppc team was suppose to tackle that problem with these old accelerator boards going for 700+ euro...we haven't gotten any news from them in a while....this may be a job for Apollo....
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Thierry Atheist
Posts 644
20 Aug 2016 20:17
| gurra g wrote:
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Have any plans been made to produce a card for the later bigbox amigas ?I guess quite a few people would be happy(atleast i know i would) if one was produced/announced since the prices for the old accelerators for theese systems are just silly atm up in the ranges of 700 euro or more which is abit much for the regular old computer hobbyists. |
Hi Gurra, For 500 Euro, later this year, or early next year (by April?) there is planned to be a standalone Apollo Core motherboard released. So, you will NOT NEED anything from the past, well, except your software and an official AMIGA ROM image. It will have: 1 gigabyte of (DDR2 or better) RAM
Be equivalent to about 350 to 450 MHz 68060!!!
You could code in 64 bit assembler
It will have SSE 1 (decode JPEGs at about 700 to 850 MHz 68060 CPU speed equiv.)
Really big (for us) instruction and data caches
Don't have to worry about leaking battery or capacitors And to top it all off (as if the above isn't enough) SUPER AGA
Screen modes up to 1920*1080 And POSSIBLY, 720p video playback!!!!
Maybe PlayStation 2 emulation capability All old Amiga hardware and accelerators will become nearly worthless! I would say that there is NO computer able to do UAE fast enough to exceed the performance of this NEW AMIGA. Definitely not, if you include 64 bit and/or SUPER AGA emulation. Even if you had an i7 with 64 Gigs of RAM and 8 cores and running at 15 GHz too.
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Gurra G
Posts 3
20 Aug 2016 21:52
| Personally im not that interested in a standalone board..
I think abit of the charm is to supercharge the old amigas beyond their intended specifications and uses.I really like the expandability of the bigbox amigas, room for alot of hardware such as harddrives, expansion cards and optical drives
without having to put a dremel to the case. If no vampire card is released for the bigboxes i guess i would be happy with the v1200(which i will preorder anyway as soon as i can)
But i still feel i would get more out of it if it resided in a a3000/a4000 system with the above mentioned ease of expandability. Im no hardware/software designer god as the members of the apollo team are( the things you manage to pull of is insane :O )
but maybe something similar to the adapter for the v500 to fit in the a2000 cpuslot would work for the v1200 to fit into the a3000/a4000 motherboards
since atleast for the a4000 the architecture is pretty similar ?
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Niclas A
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 219
20 Aug 2016 22:17
| Also found this statement from Thor from this year.
EXTERNAL LINK
| Why do you need a MMU? Because you'll need one in big box Amigas with DMA sources that transmit data on memory from one Zorro slot the same Zorro slot. Such transfers are not visible neither snoop-able by the CPU. Or you need to disable caching while DMA is running. |
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Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 6219
20 Aug 2016 22:36
| Niclas A wrote:
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Also found this statement from Thor from this year.
EXTERNAL LINK
| Why do you need a MMU? Because you'll need one in big box Amigas with DMA sources that transmit data on memory from one Zorro slot the same Zorro slot. Such transfers are not visible neither snoop-able by the CPU. Or you need to disable caching while DMA is running. |
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Do not let yourself get confused by this post.
What Thomas tried to say was that you can "hack" around some conceptional problems with MMU hacks.
This is neither any news nor the perfect solution. APOLLO has itself an MMU which is in some areas superior to the 68k MMU. But its not 68k backward compatible and not designed to be it.
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Thierry Atheist
Posts 644
20 Aug 2016 22:58
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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APOLLO has itself an MMU which is in some areas superior to the 68k MMU. But its not 68k backward compatible and not designed to be it.
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That's news to me, and I thought I've read almost everything on this website! What does this MMU offer, and does the OS use it or only custom user written programs?
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Niclas A
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 219
21 Aug 2016 00:05
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Do not let yourself get confused by this post.
What Thomas tried to say was that you can "hack" around some conceptional problems with MMU hacks.
This is neither any news nor the perfect solution.
APOLLO has itself an MMU which is in some areas superior to the 68k MMU. But its not 68k backward compatible and not designed to be it.
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I only posted this because you asked this.
I wonder who might spread this nonsense rumor about DMA over Zorro not working?
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Not because I believe Thor.
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Johannes Schäfer
Posts 47
21 Aug 2016 17:36
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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APOLLO has itself an MMU which is in some areas superior to the 68k MMU. But its not 68k backward compatible and not designed to be it.
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That's news to me, and I thought I've read almost everything on this website!
What does this MMU offer, and does the OS use it or only custom user written programs?
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Amiga OS never used MMU. For that´s I am sure. Proof: Amiga OS is running with 68000 CPU and this CPU has no MMU.
The only thing for MMU is:
- Programmers want to use Enforcer or something else to find their bugs
- Running Linux on Amiga
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Captain Zalo
Posts 71
21 Aug 2016 18:20
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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For 500 Euro, later this year, or early next year (by April?) there is planned to be a standalone Apollo Core motherboard released.
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What source do you have this from?
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Documentation about the Vampire hardware