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Documentation about the Vampire hardware

What's In a Name?page  1 2 3 

Mo Retro

Posts 116
07 Dec 2017 21:10


Then I invite everyone who likes the name to vote for it in the poll.
I like the name also.

Michael can you please post the FireBird you mentioned?


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 238
02 Jan 2018 15:34


Why not just call it NatAmi? Itís a good name, and people know that name and the project behind it


Tim Trepanier

Posts 9
02 Jan 2018 16:33


The best name for the stand a lone would be:
Amiga Classic 5000

Everyone would know what is was and how it compares to other Amiga models just from the name. Obviously, there would be some rights issues though.


Sean Sk

Posts 76
02 Jan 2018 21:17


Tim Trepanier wrote:

there would be some rights issues though.

It would be nice if the Vampire team did buy the rights to the Amiga name, but with all the legal issues going on between Cloanto and Hyperion I'm not sure they'd want to buy into all that legal mess at the moment. I'm not a fan of the ugly vampire skull screen printed on my V600. But at least it's hidden inside my A600. :)


Wawa T

Posts 445
02 Jan 2018 21:28


Mallagan Bellator wrote:

Why not just call it NatAmi? Itís a good name, and people know that name and the project behind it

because it is a name someone else invented for his own project. it would be very unfair to him to rob him of it.


Wawa T

Posts 445
02 Jan 2018 21:31


Tim Trepanier wrote:

  Amiga Classic 5000

you would have to acquire rights to call it an "amiga" and considering the legal mess around it, youd probably never be safe against further unexpected claims.

what concerns "classic" i consider it superflous, since it suggests there are some other "non classic" amigas elswhere.


Ian Parsons

Posts 129
02 Jan 2018 22:26


As things stand the Amiga name is not allowed to be used on new computers running Amiga (like) operating systems. In the crazy settlement between Amiga Inc and Hyperion Amiga Inc agreed the Amiga brand would not be used for real Amiga computers. When Commodore USA licensed the Amiga name they wanted to put AROS on their PCs but ran into legal trouble.

Vampire is a great name for the new Amiga compatible stand alone systems but there is potential for some confusion with the same "V4" board being used for both A500 accelerators and stand alone systems. A sub name or number specifically for the stand alone systems would be nice.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 742
03 Jan 2018 00:07


Ian Parsons wrote:

As things stand the Amiga name is not allowed to be used on new computers running Amiga (like) operating systems. In the crazy settlement between Amiga Inc and Hyperion Amiga Inc agreed the Amiga brand would not be used for real Amiga computers. When Commodore USA licensed the Amiga name they wanted to put AROS on their PCs but ran into legal trouble.

Nope, its allowed as long as you pay Amiga Inc.
CUSA never tried to really put AROS in front, they had they reskined MINT aka CommodoreOS. They promised to develop AROS, but never really contributed in any way but bashing it as immature. While making a bit fat checks on delayed shipments and just for Commodore molds or Amiga (mini) name and MINT.

Ian Parsons wrote:

  Vampire is a great name for the new Amiga compatible stand alone systems but there is potential for some confusion with the same "V4" board being used for both A500 accelerators and stand alone systems. A sub name or number specifically for the stand alone systems would be nice.

Vampire Standalone tells it all :-)


Ian Parsons

Posts 129
03 Jan 2018 00:15


EXTERNAL LINK


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 238
03 Jan 2018 00:29


wawa t wrote:

Mallagan Bellator wrote:

  Why not just call it NatAmi? Itís a good name, and people know that name and the project behind it
 

 
  because it is a name someone else invented for his own project. it would be very unfair to him to rob him of it.

I was under the impression that he joined the apollo team, and that Gunnar and others worked with him on the NatAmi project too?


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 238
03 Jan 2018 00:31


wawa t wrote:

  what concerns "classic" i consider it superflous, since it suggests there are some other "non classic" amigas elswhere.

the PPC Amiga One computers and Pegasos computers are none classics


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 742
03 Jan 2018 01:18


Ian Parsons wrote:

    EXTERNAL LINK     

   
    Hyperion never took legal action against C-USA. In fact, they were quite promoted on A.org and AW.net in the days, in spite all contraversies. They can hardly sue (and win) someone over using Amiga name for computer, nowadays they fight with Cloanto over rights to distribute AOS 3.1 on emulation sets. Bah. While x1000/x5000 users will probably never live to see their board fully used by AOS.
 
  Loved the end user exponation of CUSA on road episide
 
 
  ok. so what we have here is some character in florida running a furniture company out his house. he contracts with chinese manufacturers to stick his label on them, print cardboard boxes with his logo, and voila. 

On AROS exec, you can find "from triple boot and hiring AROS developers" to "shunning AROS publicly" CUSA episode
EXTERNAL LINK


Ian Parsons

Posts 129
03 Jan 2018 02:00


From the settlement agreement between Amiga Inc and Hyperion
"the Amiga Parties shall during the term of this agreement not commercialise anywhere in the world (including through sub-licensing), distribute (free of charge or otherwise) or make available to the public (free of charge or otherwise), in any way or form (including but not limited to Object Code or Source Code form), on any medium (now known or otherwise) and through any means (now known or otherwise) the Software (in part or as a whole) and any Operating System exhibiting a Software Architecture substantially similar to the Software Architecture of the Software as described in the Documentation"

Where: "Amiga Parties" means collectively Amiga, Itec, or Amino.
"Software" means Amiga OS 3.1.

The agreement includes exceptions for existing agreements such as that with Cloanto and for gaming content that doesn't expose the UI of the OS to the end user.

Basically Amiga Inc agreed not to compete with Hyperion in the 'Amiga' OS field either directly or through (new) sub-licensing. So Amiga Inc could license people to use the Amiga brand but then those people can't compete with Hyperion (and AmigaOne manufacturers) by using an Amiga or similar OS on their hardware.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 395
03 Jan 2018 10:12


what exactly is classic? I never bought "classics" but A500, A1200 and A4000. Perhaps you can explain it? BTW the so called "NG" hardware is classic too in todays terms just very very expensive


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 742
03 Jan 2018 10:29


Ian Parsons wrote:

    Basically Amiga Inc agreed not to compete with Hyperion in the 'Amiga' OS field either directly or through (new) sub-licensing. So Amiga Inc could license people to use the Amiga brand but then those people can't compete with Hyperion (and AmigaOne manufacturers) by using an Amiga or similar OS on their hardware.
   

 
  Amiga Inc is a nutshell that just has "name" to sell. Rest is a bit overstretch.  That can be a convinient excuse for CUSA failure to develop AROS further (as it has on its own during their demise) or to build their own not so skinned Linux. They could even license at least convinient Cloanto emulation package within Linux to make "the feel" but I would say they were into their pockets.
   
    "AmigaOS-like OS" means legally nothing as A inc / Hype cannot control AROS or MorphOS or any future/past fork beyond what they own, that is OS 1.0-OS 3.x and way more OS 4.x, even past of both can find dubiosity in history there too.
 
 
Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  what exactly is classic? I never bought "classics" but A500, A1200 and A4000. Perhaps you can explain it? BTW the so called "NG" hardware is classic too in todays terms just very very expensive
 

 
  NG was a nice designation at time of hope when OS4 was to appear and was promising a lot and quite fast. Then OS4 Classic dubbed machines as classics.
 
  Since Vamp is described by some of its sellers as "NG tasks capable" it might relate to what 020-040 systems werent able to do, like high end mp3 playback, video playback, HTML4/5 surf etc. 

wawa t wrote:

Mallagan Bellator wrote:

  Why not just call it NatAmi? Itís a good name, and people know that name and the project behind it
 

 
  because it is a name someone else invented for his own project. it would be very unfair to him to rob him of it.

Its not even that. I am aware Natami CPU knowledge made it to 080, but I believe its not all. 3D chip was planned and CPU itself was "weaker". Its simply not *exactly* the same, and it would be missleading. Altough, it can be said it is an evolution of that idea.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 612
04 Jan 2018 01:14


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Its not even that. I am aware Natami CPU knowledge made it to 080, but I believe its not all. 3D chip was planned and CPU itself was "weaker". Its simply not *exactly* the same, and it would be missleading. Altough, it can be said it is an evolution of that idea.

Hi Vojin,

We'll never know how good compared to the Vampire a NatAmi would have been. A few things are MUCH better on the Vampire, and some would have been better on the NatAmi design. I would say about the situation now that, "it's REALLY REALLY damn GOOD at how things worked out!!!!!" (I feel really bad about anyone that has been somehow let down by NatAmi's non-appearance. Looks like we may never get to hear the details of how it all fell apart.)

Some 3D circuitry will DEFINITELY be possible on the Vampire 4's because of all the extra LE's that it has available, even after the HW FPU is put in. Some is better than none, and I won't be complaining even if they aren't up to getting any done for the Vampire (would be nice, though).

Whatever happens, I'm in it for the LONG LONG LONG haul..... I CANNOT STAND WIN-DOSE ANY MORE!!!!!!!!

(Turns out that Opera and Chrome leave gigabyte and GIGABYTES, respectively, across 1,000's of files cached on your hard drive after you turn them off.)


Wawa T

Posts 445
04 Jan 2018 12:57


Mallagan Bellator wrote:

 
wawa t wrote:

    what concerns "classic" i consider it superflous, since it suggests there are some other "non classic" amigas elswhere.
 

  the PPC Amiga One computers and Pegasos computers are none classics
 

 
  neither of these computers is an amiga, same as an aros x86 box is none. amigaone is an amigaone, pegasos is respectively a pegasos, efika is efika, mac with morphos is still a mac and vampire standalone will remain vampire, except the agreement will be met, that it can be branded "amiga". simple, as it is. of course you can call anything "amiga" for convenience, none will sue you for it, but facts are facts.


Wawa T

Posts 445
04 Jan 2018 13:07


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Its not even that. I am aware Natami CPU knowledge made it to 080, but I believe its not all. 3D chip was planned and CPU itself was "weaker". Its simply not *exactly* the same, and it would be missleading. Altough, it can be said it is an evolution of that idea.
 

 
  "natami" was a project in its own right long before its autor met gunnar, and a whole group gathered around it. natami hardware was always developed by the same single person, who started it (much the same as vampire has been developed by igor), and it wasnt ever equipped with a cpu fpgacore, even if it was aimed at. so far 030 and 060 cpus have been utilized. 68050, 68080, apollo or whatever the fpga cpu has been called at the time, same as superaga and 3d core were all gunnar&friends additional contributions, but i doubt anything of it has been actually implemented on natami hardware.
 
  so its onlyl fair to keep trating it as a distinguished project. right?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3088
04 Jan 2018 13:08


To me being a real _AMIGA_ means it has to have the "AMIGA chipset"


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 742
04 Jan 2018 18:28


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  To me being a real _AMIGA_ means it has to have the "AMIGA chipset"
 

 
  Its kind of hardware based Amiga, and yes, its only CBM/Escom made.
 
  Since Draco and RTG, (and non chipset development after AGA) my definition is broader. Amiga is a computer that runs AmigaOS non-emulated, so even Macs with MOS and PPC NGs qualify to be Amiga.
 
  Its a parallelism to Macintosh. Mac is a machine that runs MacOS X, be it PPC or x86.
 
  Saying this, trend is that OS becomes more hardware independent (or supports as wider base as possible) and not tied to single machine(s), and can in time be even ported to more then one CPU arch. Saying that, anything that runs AROS temporarily becomes "Amiga". In this sense, Linux box is broadest of all, and almost anything is a Penguin.
 
  However, I do acknowledge multimedia and revolutionary chipset (OCS mainly), at its futurism in QL-XT-Lisa days as well as development of rich applications and games, thanks to it. That is the reason why Vamp, (of all current software Amigas in my sense) is very dear of all Amigoids out there. It answeres how would next chipset and CPU gen Amiga look like, while preserving backward compatibility. But I like that Vamp is 68k box too, being able to run EmuTOS, AROS and MacOS (abait emulated).
 
  Of all advancements, as simple audiophile with limited audio editing abilities, I applaud to Pamela. 16bit+ Hi-Fi Stereo Sound is what will make listening to mp3s sound nice again, audio editing possible etc. (too bad standalone will not feat standard chinches out for connecting to old school hi fi amplifier).
 
  68k was a key to success, or degree of software library devised, for many home computers but consoles also. I wonder where are all those people knowing 68k ASM and that it would be most precious to have a team of them back. And to give THEM exponation have to also bang the chipset and make most of it.

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