Overview Features Instructions Performance Forum Downloads Products Reseller Contact

Welcome to the Apollo Forum

This forum is for people interested in the APOLLO CPU.
Please read the forum usage manual.
VISIT APOLLO IRC CHANNEL



All TopicsNewsPerformanceGamesApolloVampireReleases
Documentation about the Vampire hardware

Vampire As a Bitcoin Miner Device?

Stefano Briccolani

Posts 50
12 Nov 2017 18:09


In some Amiga forums there are now some discussions about using an Amiga to do cryptomoney mining (after the publication of a 68k software for mining litecoins).
As the Amiga 68k itself have not the power to do this kind of work, someone suggested an fpga like Vampire could be used as a minig ASIC. That could be a very interesting option, if possible. Is a Vampire technically able to do that?


Mr Niding

Posts 192
13 Nov 2017 02:44


I would think the 68k miner program would have to be recompiled to utilize Vampire features to be useful.

It would be intresting to see the calculation of how long it would take to complete a SETI block for example and compare.

I suspect until its an ASIC it would be a curiousity.


Samuel Devulder

Posts 85
13 Nov 2017 08:08


Mining bitcoins is nowadays done not by standard cpus running generalists programs, but by dedicated fpga running a very specific mining core. Using the vampire for that would mean destroy the 080 core and replace it with the one that only does coins mining. The vampire couldn't then be used for anything else. It wouldn't be an amiga anymore :(


Pedro Cotter

Posts 44
13 Nov 2017 08:16


VampCoin!!! :-)


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2951
13 Nov 2017 08:17


The Apollo Team is mining on the Vampire since years.
What do you think is the real reason we added AMMX to APOLLO?


Martin Soerensen

Posts 143
13 Nov 2017 09:39


Stefano Briccolani wrote:

In some Amiga forums there are now some discussions about using an Amiga to do cryptomoney mining (after the publication of a 68k software for mining litecoins).
As the Amiga 68k itself have not the power to do this kind of work, someone suggested an fpga like Vampire could be used as a minig ASIC. That could be a very interesting option, if possible. Is a Vampire technically able to do that?

FPGA != ASIC. While they are similar in many ways as to what they can do, there is a big difference in the maximum clock frequency, the power consumption and the price. Think of an FPGA as a reconfigurable ASIC and while this is handy, it does not come for free.

Initially Bitcoin mining was done with regular CPUs. Quickly this moved to GPUs as they were much more effective for this type of work. Then someone created FPGA miners and they were again faster than GPU mining, so that was a think of the past. Next someone invested in moving those FPGA designs onto ASICs and although that is a big upfront investment, it meant much faster mining with lower power consumption. Now even FPGA mining is no longer feasible.
 
What you are proposing is using mining software running on a CPU implemented in an FPGA which makes no sense whatsoever as it will be way too slow and ineffective. You will spend a lot more money on power than the mined BTC would be worth.
Of course you could do it just for fun and as a proof of concept, but realize that it would be a huge money pit. :)
 
Ethereum is different from Bitcoin in that it is not possible to implement in an FPGA/ASIC as far as I can understand, so this is being mined using GPUs now. Although I don't think that AMMX is necessarily good for this kind of work either, the penalty for trying to do Ethereum mining would likely be smaller than Bitcoin.


Mr Niding

Posts 192
13 Nov 2017 10:08


@Martin
 
Gunnar got the right idea tho. Even tho its underpowered, several thousands of them running will add up. So with him clearly using their AMMX feature as a bitcoin farm, he gains income without having to pay for the electricity.

He will be rich once I take my Vampire online again :P
 
Genius consept really!


Martin Soerensen

Posts 143
13 Nov 2017 10:25


So Amiga browsers cannot run the mining scripts installed on some webpages, it is hardcoded into the core instead? :-)

I think they might see a lot of complaints about the FPGA heating up way too much if it was always mining.

If they were really clever they would add a real mining ASIC on the Vampire board, file off the top and state that it just contains various glue logic to make everything work..


Djole Djole

Posts 17
13 Nov 2017 11:00


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  The Apollo Team is mining on the Vampire since years.
  What do you think is the real reason we added AMMX to APOLLO?
 

 
 
  Lets see how long it takes for this to reach a.org :)


Chris Holzapfel

Posts 29
13 Nov 2017 12:46


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

The Apollo Team is mining on the Vampire since years.
  What do you think is the real reason we added AMMX to APOLLO?

Muhahaha, I knew it ;)


Account for Sale

Posts 193
13 Nov 2017 12:52


*trolling*


Djole Djole

Posts 17
13 Nov 2017 12:59


Account for sale wrote:

Djole Djole wrote:

  Lets see how long it takes for this to reach a.org :)
 

  EXTERNAL LINK 

And you really believe this ?


Djole Djole

Posts 17
13 Nov 2017 12:59


If so.... quick go fetch your tinfoil hat...


Account for Sale

Posts 193
13 Nov 2017 13:30


*trolling*


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 642
13 Nov 2017 13:39


Djole Djole wrote:

  And you really believe this ?

"Desparately needs a life" is a good user description :-)



Mr Niding

Posts 192
13 Nov 2017 13:41


@kolla

Tellurium suggested testing to verify. As Im not a coder or hardware guy I dont know the viability of this;

If I were in a similar position as you are now, Iíd get AsmOne with its interactive mode and type small snippets to Unit test if output corresponds to what I expect. AMMX or whatever they call the extension cannot activate if you donít ping it, so in case you donít need it, it would be just like empty space

EXTERNAL LINK 
If Gunnar had malicious intentions, would you expect an answer comfirming such actions?
Tellurium suggested that you investigate on our own accord, if trust is an issue. Asking selfcompromising questions to a party isnt likely to yield an answer.


Nicolas Sipieter

Posts 52
13 Nov 2017 13:41


/me throw a stone at kolla.. *go away ugly thing*


Djole Djole

Posts 17
13 Nov 2017 13:48


Account for sale wrote:

Believe what? That Apollo Core is capable of running software on its own, out of reach for the operating system? Apparently that is quite possible.
 
  And apparently, answering a question directly asked at me is considered trolling.

Do you really believe there are malicious threads running in the background ? Seems that all computers produced from 2008. are capable of this, maybe even before, who knows... Dont tell me its only Intel :) Its the new world we live in, accept it or go into the woods, sit under a bridge, whatever.... I dont think anybody can reverse the situation, its everywhere, your PC, phone, car, house....


Martin Soerensen

Posts 143
13 Nov 2017 13:52


Account for sale wrote:

Believe what? That Apollo Core is capable of running software on its own, out of reach for the operating system? Apparently that is quite possible.

The main problem here is how to get data in and out of such 'feature'. While some Vampire systems may be connected to the internet occasionally, but actually pushing data through this connection would likely be very hard to implement, particularly because the NIC is not always the same. If the standalone has its own Ethernet controller, then that would make it easier however since you only need to make a driver for that model. :-)


Djole Djole

Posts 17
13 Nov 2017 13:55


Martin Soerensen wrote:

Account for sale wrote:

  Believe what? That Apollo Core is capable of running software on its own, out of reach for the operating system? Apparently that is quite possible.

  The main problem here is how to get data in and out of such 'feature'. While some Vampire systems may be connected to the internet occasionally, but actually pushing data through this connection would likely be very hard to implement, particularly because the NIC is not always the same. If the standalone has its own Ethernet controller, then that would make it easier however since you only need to make a driver for that model. :-)

... and Amigas have a real "kill switch", there is no power when the PSU is off... And with the state of the filesystem, i doubt it any1 keeps any important data on their Amiga...

posts 20