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News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License - True?page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Mr Niding

Posts 194
09 Nov 2017 09:01


I havent seen him saying he has sold his Vampire, but Ive been far too busy workwise to read forum much the last few weeks. Altho he just posted on aorg he uses Gold 2.5, so I guess he still owns a Vampire.
 
  When we "witchhunt" those that are being overly negative, its a selffulfilling prophecy that the agression level will spiral out of control, in every thread.
  It seems like people are working off the "they are mean, so I have to be mean back!" script.
 
  How about trying to be the adult in the room for a change?


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
09 Nov 2017 09:19


Mr Niding wrote:
How about trying to be the adult in the room for a change?

Okay. Fair enough.

How would you respond to his quote in my previous post?


Mr Niding

Posts 194
09 Nov 2017 09:25


Well, I dont know enough to respond to the hyperthreading tinfoil comment.

He seemed to be making a random comment about the POSSIBILITY, and I guess hes not incorrect regarding the potential...? Someone more knowledgable about the I/O interaction FPGA wise would have to verify whats POTENTIALLY possible.

Do I think that will ever happen with the Apollo? Ofcourse not, and I dont think Kolla actually thinks that either. He was just talking about a layer of uncertainty since its software CPU. Again, Im not even going to try to pretend I know anything about this.
Joanna Rutkowska discussed different levels of security from OS, BIOS and Hardware aspects, and it seems that every level can be attacked.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 387
09 Nov 2017 09:44


that is simply crazy... the offer says someone wanting to create hardware gets the core for free but instead either being happy or saying no thank you they are creating long wish lists. A long time they all claimed that something without FPU is useless, now that there is a FPU they claim the same for (compatible) MMU. I assume if team would implement a compatible MMU they would find something different. It is a offer, take it or leave it simple as that.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 387
09 Nov 2017 09:48


BigD is weired too, he constantly praises a-eon, 4.X and Hyperion and recommends others to buy it but still if asked he admits he not owns it (not even the "classic" version of 4.X) and has no intention to buy something from a-eon because prices are not justifyable to him. I agree to that but then pushing others to do exactly that is strange to me...


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 387
09 Nov 2017 10:02


@Niding

I do not understand what Thierry again is talking about. The hardware implements the amiga concepts with its chipsets doing something parallel independent of processor and the processor is able to execute commands parallel but both has nothing to do with hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is processor related as I understand it and optimizes the use of the processor by minimizing the idle situations. If that is implemented or not is unknown to me.


A1200 Coder

Posts 7
09 Nov 2017 10:22


@Thierry Atheist:
 
  "On the Vampire, the OS is not in the driver's seat anymore, there is an abstraction layer implemented in FPGA sitting between the OS and the real hardware. For example, AmigaOS does not have direct control over memory (AmigaOS has no support for modern DDR memory controllers), AmigaOS is given an address space by the Apollo Core, and the core also performs all kinds of memory transfers behind AmigaOS back to increase performance. The Apollo Core is hyper-threaded, one thread running AmigaOS, the other doing whatever (accelerating I/O, sniffing your keystrokes, dialing home - who knows, no way to know what it does)."

To my knowledge, the OS can't control a memory controller, and a memory controller is a part of any system that has memory and components like a CPU that needs to access it. For example old amiga accelerator boards have memory controllers implemented with varying quality. The best boards, like Blizzard IV 68030 allows fastest possible access speed to chip ram, in addition to fast access to fast ram.



Ian Parsons

Posts 125
09 Nov 2017 10:59


The answer to a modern but incompatible MMU(/MPU) is not to put effort into changing it back to an older model, the answer is to put effort into creating new and better developer tools for the new one.


Chris Dennett

Posts 33
09 Nov 2017 10:59


Of course the OS usually programs the MMU though (if it exists), marking segments as non-execute and such. The memory itself is accessed/modified with instructions, there is no difference in instructions as to if it is DDR or SDRAM or EDORAM or whatever.

The OS manages the execution pointer (some memory address in a register - a register being a small bit of superefficient memory) which goes over instructions sequentially by hooking interrupts so it knows when instructions have finished executing - i.e., the execution pointer has finished going over them. Or the OS may decide that only some of these instructions should be executed then jump to some other instructions loaded by another app whhile saving the other app's state.

DMA is often used which allows hardware to access main system memory without going through the CPU to do this. The CPU is only involved at the beginning and end of the transfer and interrupted only after entire block has been transferred. How it used to work is as so:

    CPU requests I/O operation
    I/O module performs operation
    I/O module sets status bits
    CPU checks status bits periodically
    I/O module does not inform CPU directly
    I/O module does not interrupt CPU
    CPU may wait or come back later

or (interrupt based):

    CPU issues read command
    I/O module gets data from peripheral whilst CPU does other work
    I/O module interrupts CPU
    CPU requests data
    I/O module transfers data



Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
09 Nov 2017 12:02


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
@Niding

I do not understand what Thierry again is talking about.


Hi Olaf,

I did not say that, "kolla" said that on facebook.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 387
09 Nov 2017 12:24


Ok

I mostly do not understand Kolla on his crusade either


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
09 Nov 2017 14:07


A1200 coder wrote:

@Thierry Atheist:
 
  "On the Vampire, the OS is not in the driver's seat anymore, there is an abstraction layer implemented in FPGA sitting between the OS and the real hardware.

This is way stupid too be discussed at all. OS and user are in control, just because mem from the card is remaped by PMMU there is nothing to be lost. FPGA is hardware and it will be even further proven by standalone. Same bull ... could they say about Minimig (beside having real 00 CPU FPGA emulates the ECS).

In truth, FPGA is real hardware CPU using just Amiga I/O and chipset currently.

Hyperthreading does not run the OS. It can be used to lower latency of driver tasks by CPU.

People speaking of imagined things.


Sebastian Blanco

Posts 71
09 Nov 2017 14:07


@Mr Niding

I got your point, and don't like to drag this but to be clear i was suggesting to a guy how to fix his issue on a help thread.

This guys where in this help thread not giving any suggestion or support or nothing they just got there to hijack the thread to turn it on a vampire bashing thread.

BigD started by just calling me scum for example.
Kolla copy and paste things he already have in some kind of list one behind the other full of wrong information or old data just to make people angry, that is call trolling.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 149
09 Nov 2017 17:34


Sebastian Blanco wrote:

  @Mr Niding
 
  I got your point, and don't like to drag this but to be clear i was suggesting to a guy how to fix his issue on a help thread.
 
  This guys where in this help thread not giving any suggestion or support or nothing they just got there to hijack the thread to turn it on a vampire bashing thread.
 
  BigD started by just calling me scum for example.
  Kolla copy and paste things he already have in some kind of list one behind the other full of wrong information or old data just to make people angry, that is call trolling.
 

 
That's been my experience on that site as well.  Just mentioning a Vampire or ApolloOS there is inviting an attack and then the name-calling begins.  It's the same if you say something that's the least bit critical of OS4 or Hyperion/A-Eon.  I honestly think those guys have been offered discounts or other financial incentives to attack anyone who makes remarks that put any of the aforementioned parties in a bad light.
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
09 Nov 2017 17:44


Steve Ferrell wrote:

    This guys where in this help thread not giving any suggestion or support or nothing they just got there to hijack the thread to turn it on a vampire bashing thread.
 

We should just ignore it. 2.7 core will come, in few months GOLD3 and satisfaction and widespread of userbase will increase, making them tiny minority and with less arguments. 

Soviet has made very nice guide to sd.net on a.org, as contrary.
EXTERNAL LINK 


Sebastian Blanco

Posts 71
09 Nov 2017 18:24


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
Steve Ferrell wrote:

      This guys where in this help thread not giving any suggestion or support or nothing they just got there to hijack the thread to turn it on a vampire bashing thread.
   

 
  We should just ignore it. 2.7 core will come, in few months GOLD3 and satisfaction and widespread of userbase will increase, making them tiny minority and with less arguments. 
 
  Soviet has made very nice guide to sd.net on a.org, as contrary.
  EXTERNAL LINK   
 

 
  Yes i know because i am soviet ;)


Mr Niding

Posts 194
09 Nov 2017 18:36


@Sebastian Blanco

On IRC;

<Mindblighter> oh chucky
<Niding> Im soon approaching the time where I have to apologize to Sebastian Blanco for lecturing him about calling out people :P

Anyhow, after several attempts to discuss coherently with Chucky, Ive officially given up.
So you are right!


Sebastian Blanco

Posts 71
09 Nov 2017 19:40


Mr Niding wrote:

@Sebastian Blanco
 
  On IRC;
 
  <Mindblighter> oh chucky
  <Niding> Im soon approaching the time where I have to apologize to Sebastian Blanco for lecturing him about calling out people :P
 
  Anyhow, after several attempts to discuss coherently with Chucky, Ive officially given up.
  So you are right!

Don't worry.
You seem to have more patience than me, don't loose your time this guys don't deserve it.

:)


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 176
09 Nov 2017 19:44


@thread

Chucky has his opinion. Get over it. This is turning into some weird obsession.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 149
09 Nov 2017 19:47


Mr Niding wrote:

@Sebastian Blanco
 
  On IRC;
 
  <Mindblighter> oh chucky
  <Niding> Im soon approaching the time where I have to apologize to Sebastian Blanco for lecturing him about calling out people :P
 
  Anyhow, after several attempts to discuss coherently with Chucky, Ive officially given up.
  So you are right!

Thanks!  I got a good laugh from this.  I hate to say, "See, I told you so, but hey, I told you so!"  LOL!


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