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News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License - True?page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 14:40


AmiTopia published this, I wonder is true, and will it speed up other and cheap 060 fpga based designs?

EXTERNAL LINK 
Gunnar von Böhn which is the head of Apollo Team offers regarding this a1k.org post, to make his 68080 reimplementation of a 68k processor available to other hardware manufacturers.
68080 is available as part of the “Apollo Cores” on the Vampire Accelerator cards

Currently, the 68080 is available as part of the “Apollo Cores” on the Vampire Accelerator cards, which are available for the Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 2000, and Amiga 600 cards. Also 68080 is announced for the Amiga 1200 and the Vampire V4 stand-alone version. For the Amiga 3000, Amiga 4000 or even Amiga 4000T Amigas, nobody had ever offered appropriate solutions. But now Gunnar von Böhn gives other a chance to do so.

From Böhn’s offer provides that a hardware manufacturer can license a free version of the 68060, which is throttled after booting to the speed of a real 68060 processor, but otherwise has the full range of features of the 68080. This “shareware output” of the CPU could then end users by acquiring a Keycode from Böhn from throttling.
Apollo Team makes their creation Available for even more audience

This offer would enable manufacturers in the Amiga to offer fast speed cards despite the very high prices or unavailability of the 68060. By Böhn himself this is opening up new markets, as, for example, manufacturers such as Jens Schönfeld from Individual Computers or other great hardware people could offer processor cards for Amiga 3000 and Amiga 4000 users, whose users may well be interested in unlocking the extra speed for their Amigas.

The offer refers only to the CPU of the Apollo Core. Other components contained there such as SAGA or a possible chipset emulation are excluded in this free offer from Gunnar von Böhn.

Interesting move. Focusing on the low-cost Amigas and the stand-alone Vampire V4 is a good move. Why Amiga 3000 and Amiga 4000 is removed from the plan, we don’t know yet. It’s most about time and money spent on this project for sure. We are looking forward with this project. Also the fact that A1200.net guys got a Vampire V4 as a gift at Amiga32 was a nice move by the team. Maybe these two can team up and make the ultimate Amiga V5000 in the end toghether?

Source
amiganews.de


Renaud Schweingruber

Posts 85
07 Nov 2017 14:45


EXTERNAL LINK


Sebastian Blanco

Posts 71
07 Nov 2017 15:15


I never see that one coming, interesting move.



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 15:39


Sebastian Blanco wrote:

I never see that one coming, interesting move.
 

Long long time ago it was mentioned as planned, but is nice to see its coming.

Its great move to making Amiga h/w availiable beyond EOL by Freescale/current owner, plus another nail in move towards making 080/AMMX2 as new de facto standard.

If at least one Amiga vendor makes use of this, its right step ahead.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2953
07 Nov 2017 15:39


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Why Amiga 3000 and Amiga 4000 is removed from the plan, we don’t know yet.

Vampire 3000 and Vampire 4000 were _NEVER_ removed from the plan.
They are in plan for 2018.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 15:50


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Vampire 3000 and Vampire 4000 were _NEVER_ removed from the plan.
  They are in plan for 2018.

It wasnt officially mentioned enough.

Thanks for acknowledgment. It will make lucky A3000/A4000 owners happy. And they will start with V4 Vamp and GOLD3, very nice way to go, even they missed all v1 and v2 action.



Crow Mohikan

Posts 48
07 Nov 2017 16:50


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Why Amiga 3000 and Amiga 4000 is removed from the plan, we don’t know yet.
 

 
 
  Vampire 3000 and Vampire 4000 were _NEVER_ removed from the plan.
  They are in plan for 2018.
 

 
  Plzz never remove it. We are waiting vampire :(  thank you.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 17:21


oh, what a mess


Mr Niding

Posts 194
07 Nov 2017 17:38


Thierry Atheist wrote:

oh, what a mess

I never understood why you are so against sharing.

What might come of this is ONE set design standard. It will presumably make it easier for developers to build their compilers and programs/games/demos in general since its a openly available core.
Isnt the lack of standards one of the main curses of Amiga?

And then you got hardware addons etc

Thumbs up from me anyhow!


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 18:51


Thierry Atheist wrote:

oh, what a mess

I agree with Mr. Nidding. It great road to make 080 more widespread and supported. While 020-040 (060 soon) software works great unoptimized, thanks to best care of backward compatibility, only way to get new truly 080/AMMX2 optimized software in future is openning and spreading the design.

Solution is nice. You get a bit speed crippled same design that can be unlocked to full potential by license fee from user. So one can happily have 060 performance with no high cost and for small fee can unlock the full potential.

It reminds me of best Amiga tradition of PD and shareware software which was great way to go - all can try and see, and who wants fully functional or advanced features can buy. I believe its best way in S/W and now H/W terms of both reaching wide audience and fighting piracy.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 19:01


Mr Niding wrote:
Thierry Atheist wrote:
oh, what a mess
I never understood why you are so against sharing.

What might come of this is ONE set design standard. It will presumably make it easier for developers to build their compilers and programs/games/demos in general since its a openly available core.
Isnt the lack of standards one of the main curses of Amiga?

And then you got hardware addons etc


Hi Mr Niding.

No, I precisely nailed it. All you get is exactly, a mess.

Look at PC clones. 20 companies were making them, all with different motherboard layouts, different CPUs running at different speeds with different OEM add-ons. You could never tell the shoddy from the reliable, and in a crowded market, was the clone you buy, would the company behind it be in business 6 months later?

People mostly scoff at my projection of 20,000 users by 2020. Well, what will the user base be, then? 4,000? Divided by 3, to 7 different boards with different amounts of RAM and all being somewhat the same, but a lot different. What am I going to do without S-AGA? A slightly different 68080 performance with differing SW builds always necessary between these boards.

A fractured market will lead to MORE EXPENSIVE boards because of a reduced clientele base per offering.

Right now, Vampire is "the only game in town" and even then, I think that they should discontinue the Vampire 2.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 19:05


Dont worry, we will not become the "PC clone wars", we arent that big.

At CPU level optimization and widespread adoption in Amigaland, it will prove most helpful. But lets of speak of it IF and WHEN it LIVES, then we can see EFFECTS. Intention is good.


Mr Niding

Posts 194
07 Nov 2017 19:06


You mention "different CPUs", but frown upon Apollo sharing their core. Doesnt quite add up.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 19:11


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Thierry Atheist wrote:
oh, what a mess

Solution is nice. You get a bit speed crippled same design that can be unlocked to full potential by license fee from user. So one can happily have 060 performance with no high cost and for small fee can unlock the full potential.


Hi Vojin,

No, I'm sorry, but who is going to figure out how Majsta did his magic, and reproduce an accelerator with a sufficiently big FPGA to compete with "The Real Deal", when we are light years ahead with S-AGA and HDMI 1920x1080 output, etc. etc.???

Imagine going to AmigaKit and trying to decide which of 4 NG 68K options you'll buy, when one is the clear winner?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 19:16


Mr Niding wrote:

You mention "different CPUs", but frown upon Apollo sharing their core. Doesnt quite add up.

Agreed.

Thierry Atheist wrote:

  What am I going to do without S-AGA?

Most of Amiga accels, in fact all to Vampires, never included chipset or chipset enhancements.

I suppose Classic lovers could keep using OCS/ECS/AGA on their board plus 060+ speed. That is great in times when one effectivly cannot buy 060 accell. and even if can, its insanely expensive.

Thierry Atheist wrote:

  Right now, Vampire is "the only game in town" and even then, I think that they should discontinue the Vampire 2.

Why? Having 2 products is always better then one, and price difference is higher then performance gain, so those who dont need USB/LAN/ApolloFPU that much can have 080/SAGA quite cheaply. In time v2 prices might slightly drop making it trully afordable and performant solution.

Since v2 has no standalone edit, its anyway intended in keeping Classics alive. v4 offers maximum for now and standalone revival. SO they are highly compatibile but nicely separated products.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 19:17


Mr Niding wrote:
You mention "different CPUs", but frown upon Apollo sharing their core. Doesnt quite add up.

I do frown on too many options even in a big market as it increases prices.

How many essentially identical computers did Commodore make? Just a different doo-dad on the various models.

I strongly feel that it has a negative impact on our chances of success.

There are what, 7 varieties of AOS out there? How's that working for us?

NOT SO GOODLY!


Mr Niding

Posts 194
07 Nov 2017 19:20


Too many options increases prices? In what world?
 
Supply and demand dictates that increased supply will put pressure on prices.
Ofcourse, in a retrohobby market with relativly few customers, and transparent infoexchange between developer and customer; we will accept that there is a "lowest realistic pricelevel" to break even.
 
And now you say there are 7 different AOS's out there, but its really only AOS 4 (NG) and AOS 3.x. Vampire users run different versions of AOS3.x without it hindering us.

And again; when Apollo share their Core, the risk of "different" CPUs reduces.
 
Your grasping for straws here.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 19:26


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Thierry Atheist wrote:
Right now, Vampire is "the only game in town" and even then, I think that they should discontinue the Vampire 2.
Why? Having 2 products is always better then one,

So, Vojin, how about filling me on just how many models of Vampire there are?

Lets see, one for A500, 600, 2000, CDTV.

One for A1200, CD32. And one for 3000? And one for 4000? Or are the 1200 and 4000 the same?

That's 4, 3? And 3 of Vampire 4 AND a standalone????

And that's from ONE project group.... That's a heck of a product line for such a small market (as I keep being informed) that ours is. And you want more people to produce 3 each, times 3 other manufactures??? Sounds like chaos to me!!!!

Such small quantities being produced by everyone CAN'T lead to lower prices!

Think about it, what if Jens and A-Eon and ACube ALL made Vampire clones!

I love EVERYTHING that the Vampire/Apollo Core people are doing, but think this is a mistake.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 573
07 Nov 2017 19:42


Mr Niding wrote:
Too many options increases prices? In what world?

Ohhh, I don't know, maybe the world where an accelerator for an A2000 cost about 75% of the price of my A2000, even though there were ~7,000,000 Amigas floating around! 5 or 6 accelerator companies all making small runs, ALL OF THEM incurring the SAME engineering costs of generating the schematics for a PCB to work in my A2000. And every time a new accelerator came out, it was ALWAYS the same old tale, it cost 75% of my A2000 when it was released. The 020, 030, 040, then the 060!!!!

I have lived through it; THAT world.

Mr Niding wrote:
Supply and demand dictates that increased supply will put pressure on prices.

I disagree, but even if I am wrong, it would apply in BIG markets, and even Amiga, at 7,000,000 computers, didn't "fit the bill".

Mr Niding wrote:
And now you say there are 7 different AOS's out there, but its really only AOS 4 (NG) and AOS 3.x. Vampire users run different versions of AOS3.x without it hindering us.

And Morphos and AROS and Icaros and UAE (kind of) and now a "must have" (and it's GOOD) 68080 AOS variant!

But now, what, a 68080 AND a 68080 +S-AGA variant as well?



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 650
07 Nov 2017 19:50


Thierry Atheist wrote:

  So, Vojin, how about filling me on just how many models of Vampire there are?
  Lets see, one for A500, 600, 2000, CDTV.

You are groslly mistaken. There is A500 Vamp that can be adopted to 500/2000/CDTV and A600 one with difference of only IDE connector on A500 model.

Generally, Vampires are generation models (v2 and v4) just connector adopted to fit some model. Even standalone is same v4 model+DB9 connectors that will just need a bit different core to control outer perphals instead of internal, Classic ones.

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