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Information about the Apollo CPU and FPU.

News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License - True?page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 

Peter Heginbotham

Posts 190
08 Nov 2017 15:04


One thing that did peak my interest was this statement “This “shareware output” of the CPU could then end users by acquiring a Keycode from Böhn from throttling.” Does this open an avenue to fund development  MPU\MMUlib, Datatype WarpDT AMMX etc development to have an enhanced Core for paying users




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
08 Nov 2017 15:09


Peter Heginbotham wrote:

One thing that did peak my interest was this statement “This “shareware output” of the CPU could then end users by acquiring a Keycode from Böhn from throttling.” Does this open an avenue to fund development  MPU\MMUlib, Datatype WarpDT AMMX etc development to have an enhanced Core for paying users

Probably it might fund development if in higher numbers, but this needs:

a) Someone to use Apollo (we havent seen any interestees yet, and next step is to have and sell product)
b) His customers to be interested and pay for unlocking

That might come live in 2018/2019 season, IF it happens.

Note that even core is "free" someone needs to buy and build overall FPGA design with memory.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 626
08 Nov 2017 15:23


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Note that even core is "free" someone needs to buy and build overall FPGA design with memory.

Well gosh darn it, if someone doesn't go out and build an Arria 10 standalone! (With par/ser/floppy drive ports, to boot (from).)


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
08 Nov 2017 15:28


Thierry Atheist wrote:
  Well gosh darn it, if someone doesn't go out and build an Arria 10 standalone! (With par/ser/floppy drive ports, to boot (from).)

 
  It wont have SAGA unless licensed, so no dreams of it.
 
  But, example of A1200/4000 card that would have more/better ports then Vamp could be a nice competition.
 
  However, leave it be, I am sure in years to come Vamp designs will grow stronger as FPGA gets cheaper. AMD/Intel (and there is even new Intel chip with AMD Gfx) will surely have some even newer design ... So we can improve what we have, not rule the world.
 
  Even having Arria 10 now is pointless as my x1000 that has decent horsepower when fully utilized under Linux, but has no AmigaOS app that can sweat it single-core (same goes for x5000). So we need to have some software first, in my opinion. Vampire is better here, because there is high end Classics software that benefits 060+ speed and lots of RAM.
 


Chris Dennett

Posts 67
08 Nov 2017 16:17


SAGA isn't a neccessity if it's in an AGA Amiga with some open-source graphics card also in the same FPGA for RTG


Eric Gus

Posts 442
08 Nov 2017 17:21


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  Is there a logical reason people wanting all this limits and problem?
 

While I agree with you 100000% .. Apparently the answer to your question is YES they want all that.. warts, flaws and all ..


Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
08 Nov 2017 17:39


@Eric gus
then, it's not a 'logical reason'.

anyway these people are not the majority, i think they just don't understand what the 080 is (and possibly the fpga too), and they are affraid basicaly, out of ignorance. once their friends and everyone else will start having a great time with 080 they will have a second look and will then like it.

beside there's always some unhappy ones, skeptics, naysayers and some
  with just a dose of ignorance.

the way i see it, the amiga community, in the general sense, welcomes massively 080 and vampire. better focus on that positive part.




John William

Posts 467
08 Nov 2017 17:53


nicolas sipieter wrote:

  @Eric gus
    then, it's not a 'logical reason'.
   
    anyway these people are not the majority, i think they just don't understand what the 080 is (and possibly the fpga too), and they are affraid basicaly, out of ignorance. once their friends and everyone else will start having a great time with 080 they will have a second look and will then like it.
   
    beside there's always some unhappy ones, skeptics, naysayers and some
    with just a dose of ignorance.
   
    the way i see it, the amiga community, in the general sense, welcomes massively 080 and vampire. better focus on that positive part.
   
   
 

 
  What are you saying exactly? Are you saying that the majority of people have common sense and smart and only minority of them are stupid?
 
  I think you need to open the window and take a better clearer look outside, you will find your wrong.

P.S "THE DOWN FALL OF AMIGA IS IT'S COMMUNITY!"


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
08 Nov 2017 18:03


nicolas sipieter wrote:

@Eric gus
  then, it's not a 'logical reason'.
 
  anyway these people are not the majority, i think they just don't understand what the 080 is (and possibly the fpga too), and they are affraid basicaly, out of ignorance. once their friends and everyone else will start having a great time with 080 they will have a second look and will then like it.
 
  beside there's always some unhappy ones, skeptics, naysayers and some
  with just a dose of ignorance.
 
  the way i see it, the amiga community, in the general sense, welcomes massively 080 and vampire. better focus on that positive part.
 
 

I see all the negativity as a 50/50 split.  There are quite a few people who understand perfectly that the Vampire is a threat to the little OS4/PPC empires that they've built over the years so they're willing to go pretty far in order to see the Vampire fail.  They understand perfectly that the Vampire will be outperforming current NG Amigas in a year or two and that platform-interest is shifting away from NG Amigas and OS4 to the Vampire and OS3.x or AROS.  That's why all the OS4 fanboys over at Amiga.org are running around like their hair is on fire spreading all kinds of misinformation about the Vampire and the 68080 and anyone who challenges their views gets viciously attacked.

So I see about half the attacks coming from the ignorant buffoons you mentioned and the other half coming from people who know full well the impact that the Vampire will have and is having on OS4/PPC computing.



Sean Sk

Posts 394
08 Nov 2017 18:43


The Amiga platform has grown to become a “concept” that encompasses a diverse set of projects that not only includes the original computers but also such things as the Vampire and A-Eons PPC range. The Amiga platform needs to move forward and try new things and if there are those that choose to not move with it then thats their prerogative. Probably should just ignore the negative comments on the other forums. Lets just focus on how we can have fun with the Vampire.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 397
08 Nov 2017 18:54


sean sk wrote:

  The Amiga platform has grown to become a “concept” that encompasses a diverse set of projects, that not only includes the original computers, but also such things as the Vampire and A-Eons PPC range. The Amiga platform needs to move forward and try new things and if there are those that choose to not move with it then thats their prerogative. Probably should just ignore the negative comments on the other forums. Lets just focus on how we can have fun with the Vampire.
 

 
I agree, but it's tough to ignore them when they show up here spreading the same dung and discord that they've been tossing around on other forums.  Kolla visits this board frequently parroting the same old tired talking points like a broken record and there are a handful of others who do the same.  I find myself visiting Amiga.org less and less for 2 reasons.  One, because Amiga.org has become nearly irrelevant and two, because of the misinformation and attacks that get launched there.  I'm looking forward to my standalone Vampire and eventually I will stop visiting A.org altogether.  It's already become a virtual ghost town compared to several other forums.
 


Sean Sk

Posts 394
08 Nov 2017 19:17


Steve Ferrell wrote:

  I agree, but it tough to ignore them when they show up here spreading the same dung and discord that they've been tossing around on other forums.  Kolla visits this board frequently parroting the same old tired talking points like a broken record and there are a handful of others who do the same.  I find myself visiting Amiga.org less and less for 2 reasons.  One, because Amiga.org has become nearly irrelevant and two, because of the misinformation and attacks that get launched there.  I'm looking forward to my standalone Vampire and eventually I will stop visiting A.org altogether.  It's already become a virtual ghost town compared to several other forums.
 

 
  Yeah I stopped visiting there as well. I had to take a deep breath and realize that the Amiga community is diverse and, at the end of the day, that’s a good thing. The Amiga platform has survived and, in fact, grown beyond Commodore despite their complete and utter failure as a company. It’s much like how MSDOS/Windows systems moved beyond IBM, except that platform went on to become hugely mainstream, and that IBM is still around. :)
 
  Maybe it’s just best to let them have their say and not be provoked into getting into an argument with them. That way they will have nothing further to say in response.


Sebastian Blanco

Posts 145
08 Nov 2017 19:41


BozzerBigD = He seems to be real on what he thinks not a troll. Just a lunatic in a never-ending quest to protect commodore intellectual property.
 
  Kola = professional troll he is in all vampire/apollo threads spiting venom, seems to have some personal and deep hate for the apollo team.
 
  Chucky = seems to have a less forward approach to trolling he just says random garbage, talking like he is a superior class of who knows "high end user"  and other narcissistic attitudes. Pretends that he don't cares but he do and is there all day trolling on vampire threads. Also he seems to be developing a 68060 accelerator so he can have a good motive to attack competitors.
 
  This guys are just trolls, don't feed them.
 
 
 


Nicolas Sipieter
(Needs Verification)
Posts 115/ 1
08 Nov 2017 20:50


@Steve Ferrell and john william box1

ok, i admit, i was too optimist and you're both correct.
i've opened my window and took a look.
i realize now, earth (which encompass amiga community too) is overrun by agressive brainless monkeys. may god help us all.


M Rickan

Posts 176
09 Nov 2017 02:08


eric gus wrote:

While I agree with you 100000% .. Apparently the answer to your question is YES they want all that.. warts, flaws and all ..

That's not entirely fair.

Many people have simply said that this licensing opportunity would be more compelling if the reimplementation included an FPU and MMU. That doesn't imply anything about design flaws and bugs.

There are lots of competing views on how the Apollo Core development should be prioritized. Hopefully this move will allow the developers to focus on the core and let others produce innovative ways to use the technology.

Bottom line: this is huge.


Asaf Ayoub

Posts 26
09 Nov 2017 02:48



I see alot of potential.

Opensource hardware family.

If cut down versions are Opensourced on modular boards, we could have :

80 mhz CPU board + RAM
Sound board
USB/network board
Graphics board

All open source (cut down / features removed boards)

Find a Hardware Engineer to create boards and systems that are open source, but can be upgraded with commercial parts.
Maybe he can build into a company selling boards.

Making own boards creates portability and new hardware for new Amigas and AROS builds that use SAME drivers.

Any AROS systems could also fund new development with also Patreon.

A mini retro console would be awsome.




Eric Gus

Posts 442
09 Nov 2017 04:12


m rickan wrote:

eric gus wrote:

  While I agree with you 100000% .. Apparently the answer to your question is YES they want all that.. warts, flaws and all ..
 

 
  That's not entirely fair.
 
  Many people have simply said that this licensing opportunity would be more compelling if the reimplementation included an FPU and MMU. That doesn't imply anything about design flaws and bugs.
 
  There are lots of competing views on how the Apollo Core development should be prioritized. Hopefully this move will allow the developers to focus on the core and let others produce innovative ways to use the technology.
 
  Bottom line: this is huge.

the "warts and all" was a response to Gunnars comments about the flaws inherent in the 060 itself..


Eric Gus

Posts 442
09 Nov 2017 04:17


I honestly see no problem with making the "Free" Apollo core, an exact 100% identical to the real thing, 060 clone, fpu/mmu and all .. this will pretty much deflate any argument the "purists" have and still put a huge hole in the exceptionally overpriced antique accelerator market.. why use a "vintage" cpu when you can get exactly the same thing from an FPGA and a 100% identical core clone.. If people "want" to get onboard with the full 080 core and the SAGA features and other advancements then let them pay the fee and get it.. Honestly doing a split like this is a good idea.. it pretty much kills most of the critics arguments and puts a massive dent into the overpriced vintage accelerator market in one swoop while providing an upgrade path for those users that really want to go "past" the old and into something more modern a generation beyond the classic while still being true to the 68k platform but having new and advanced features (enter the 080) additionally not pigeonholed into buying an antique board and insane prices by having an alternate viable option based on modern low power hardware.. (no rotting leaking smd caps).
   


Mr Niding

Posts 454
09 Nov 2017 05:25


@Sebastian Blanco

You are not being particuarly fair/constructive with that description.

Take BigD. I disagree with him on alot of topics, but I think he is genuine in his wishes for the best for "Amiga". In theory I agree with him regarding piracy, BUT like Steve (and myself) has said many times on awnet and aorg; I and most others here have purchased every single version of AOS3.x (and several AOS4.x), so we dont feel particuarly bad about using ApolloOS. We have done what we can do support vendors, even if they sell a dead OS.

Kolla. He has quite often good points/raises discussions thats worth having, but I do agree he gets a bit over the top at times. He wants his Vampire to run the programs he uses daily ASAP, instead of accepting that Vampire is work in progress.
Thats the main gripe I have with him. His impatience, and getting subjective in his rethoric due to that.
But he owns a Vampire, and I do not think he hates the team or the hardware. He just wants it to run his library of software NOW, which is again; unfair to the team.

Chucky. Well, I have to agree Im loosing my patience with him. He base his comments on a OLD core, and the issues he raises, which is valid based on that, has largely been fixed in newer cores.
So he is not helpful at all for sure.
But I do understand some of his points.

But the constant villification either way is NOT helpful, from the supporters of Vampire, and those that have problems with it.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 626
09 Nov 2017 05:48


Mr Niding wrote:
@Sebastian Blanco

You are not being particuarly fair/constructive with that description.


Hi Mr Niding,

Are you sure?
Mr Niding wrote:
Kolla. He has quite often good points/raises discussions thats worth having, but I do agree he gets a bit over the top at times.

You and I wouldn't be talking about this "kolla" by any chance???

"Consider it a hardware accelerated virtual Amiga.

On the Vampire, the OS is not in the driver's seat anymore, there is an abstraction layer implemented in FPGA sitting between the OS and the real hardware. For example, AmigaOS does not have direct control over memory (AmigaOS has no support for modern DDR memory controllers), AmigaOS is given an address space by the Apollo Core, and the core also performs all kinds of memory transfers behind AmigaOS back to increase performance. The Apollo Core is hyper-threaded, one thread running AmigaOS, the other doing whatever (accelerating I/O, sniffing your keystrokes, dialing home - who knows, no way to know what it does)."

If you want the link, I can give it.
Mr Niding wrote:
He wants his Vampire to run the programs he uses daily ASAP, instead of accepting that Vampire is work in progress.
Thats the main gripe I have with him. His impatience, and getting subjective in his rethoric due to that.
But he owns a Vampire, and I do not think he hates the team or the hardware. He just wants it to run his library of software NOW, which is again; unfair to the team.

I think he's said that he sold it. I could be wrong, because he and "Chucky" were multiple times playing with the "it's useless, I think I'll sell mine off".

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