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Downstrip Vampire Performance to Classic Mode

Chris T.

Posts 118
11 May 2020 20:30


I recognize that some old classic titles having problems with RGB workbench screens to start the game from HD. This can be also refered to the AGA chipset. However I having this with Coffin R56 and Vampire 500 V2+. When I am booting with a simple workbench disk (e.g. WB Install 3.1.4), I can still access the main harddisk of Coffin and can run w/o problems for instance FATE GATES OF DAWN HD INSTALLATION GAME ICON. Why does this not work with the maintanance mode? This should also be Pal high/low res, etc. without any sophisticated stuff to assure most compatibility, maybe together with the turtle mode (plain boot). With that (no fastram, just slow ram and 1 MB chip) and the proper kickrom (e.g. Kick1.3 or kick3.1) the classic machine can be run to crack very  special classic hard nut shells such as Oil Imperium, Amberstar and Fate.Those  Games to play from HD (not WHDLoad)or disk version such as HYBRIS, SWIV or Back to the future Part II as example. Even with Maprom and Turtle mode, those disk games are still not running with latest Coffin and Release Candidate. This would be a great achievement,if the vampire would be fully downgradable (only hd,68000 and kick 3.1/1.3 w/o HD or disk games).


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4788
12 May 2020 06:29


Hello Chris,
   
I'm sorry but I not understand your question.
I understand your post that you can run e.g. "Fate Gates of Dawn"  as you want it.
Did I understand you right, then the Vampire can do exactly as you like?

Can it be that your wish is not about Vampire but about a "different  Setting" for Coffin without RTG and without fastmem?


Sean Sk

Posts 364
12 May 2020 14:39


I could be wrong but I get the impression he is asking whether it is possible to implement a pure 68000 mode, perhaps at the base speed of 7mHz that accesses only chipram and a kickstart of your choice, either KS 1.3 or 3.1, to ensure 100% compatability with games that refuse to work even with Turtle Mode.
 
I have a couple of WHDLoad games that refuse to work, no matter what settings I chose, and I am wondering whether Chris T feels that a 68000 mode could fix such games in these cases?



Eric Gus

Posts 398
13 May 2020 05:05


I also have a few games that for whatever reason are NOT IN WHDLOAD an no slave I know of exists, one being Electronic Arts "Instant Music" .. So this "mode" being proposed would be welcomed as there is no other way to really run it.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4788
13 May 2020 07:02


sean sk wrote:

a pure 68000 mode

But such a mode would give a lot of problems.

The P96 GFX RTG system will crash on the 68000.
Also the Kickstart which knows you have a 020+ would crash if you switch to a 68000 CPU in the middle of running.
This means switching to pure 68000 will crash and also booting with pure 68000 your normal WB will not work.



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4788
13 May 2020 07:03


eric gus wrote:

I also have a few games that for whatever reason are NOT IN WHDLOAD an no slave I know of exists, one being Electronic Arts "Instant Music" .. So this "mode" being proposed would be welcomed as there is no other way to really run it.

Did you try EA Instant Music in turtle mode?


Steve Ferrell

Posts 393
13 May 2020 07:12


I may be wrong since it's been so many years, but wasn't there a patch that could be applied to the EXE that allowed Instant Music to run under KS 1.3 on a RAM expanded Amiga?  I think that the unpatched version of Instant Music would fail to run if the KS version was greater than 1.1 or maybe 1.2 and if the system had any FASTRAM installed.


Tim Waite

Posts 24
13 May 2020 22:37


Instant Music did not work on any KS after 1.1. 


Eric Gus

Posts 398
14 May 2020 02:30


Yea it didnt work .. it really likes just a stock A500 type configuration.


Eric Gus

Posts 398
14 May 2020 02:31


It works with 1.2/1.3 .. but it doesnt really like any sort of ram other than just 512kb chip. (think stock out of the box A500 type machine)
 
  If I could find a WHDLoad slave that would be fine for me too but alas none seem to exist for it.


Eric Gus

Posts 398
14 May 2020 02:35


Steve Ferrell wrote:

I may be wrong since it's been so many years, but wasn't there a patch that could be applied to the EXE that allowed Instant Music to run under KS 1.3 on a RAM expanded Amiga?  I think that the unpatched version of Instant Music would fail to run if the KS version was greater than 1.1 or maybe 1.2 and if the system had any FASTRAM installed.

IDK maybe, I do know it works with 1.3 as that is what my original A500 came with (and its the same machine the Vampire V500 is in now, yep the very same machine -- ive been its one and only owner since day 1) that would be nice if such an exe existed, but I do know its one of the more twiggy games I have in terms of anything beyond a stock machine it wants to run on.. That would be nice to get that EXE if such a thing exists. 


Eric Gus

Posts 398
14 May 2020 05:46


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

eric gus wrote:

  I also have a few games that for whatever reason are NOT IN WHDLOAD an no slave I know of exists, one being Electronic Arts "Instant Music" .. So this "mode" being proposed would be welcomed as there is no other way to really run it.
 

 
  Did you try EA Instant Music in turtle mode?

(I forgot to quote in my answer above)

It didnt work at all .. it really likes a stock A500 type config.



Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4788
14 May 2020 06:16


eric gus wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
eric gus wrote:

  I also have a few games that for whatever reason are NOT IN WHDLOAD an no slave I know of exists, one being Electronic Arts "Instant Music" .. So this "mode" being proposed would be welcomed as there is no other way to really run it.
 

 
  Did you try EA Instant Music in turtle mode?
 

 
  (I forgot to quote in my answer above)
 
  It didnt work at all .. it really likes a stock A500 type config.

Did you turn off Fastmem?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1697
14 May 2020 10:21


eric gus wrote:

    It didnt work at all .. it really likes a stock A500 type config.
 

 
  Its hard to archieve anywhere, on but stock A500 :)
 
  I dont know has anyone tested Degrader 1995  with Vampire
  EXTERNAL LINK 
latest (and greatest) degrader  for the Amiga.

 
 
  Here is a summary of features :
 
        o Any executable file can be run.
        o Bootblocks can be run, saved, loaded etc.
        o Limit amount of available fast memory.
        o Limit amount of available chip memory.
        o 'Fake' fast memory when real fast memory is not present.
        o Clear all free memory before execution of the program or
          bootblock.
        o Chipset and display type 'emulation'.
        o CPU/FPU 'emulation'
        o Ability to change the mode of operation for data and/or
          instruction caches.
        o Allow setting of the VBR (Vector Base Register) to any area
          of memory (providing the particular area of memory is not
          currently being used)
        o Ability to selectively disable floppy disk drives, CD-ROM
          drives and/or the PCMCIA port.
 
        Plus lots of other features.
 
  This program is GIFTWARE, please consider sending the author a gift.
 
 


Eric Gus

Posts 398
15 May 2020 07:23


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

 
eric gus wrote:

 
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
eric gus wrote:

    I also have a few games that for whatever reason are NOT IN WHDLOAD an no slave I know of exists, one being Electronic Arts "Instant Music" .. So this "mode" being proposed would be welcomed as there is no other way to really run it.
   

     
    Did you try EA Instant Music in turtle mode?
   

   
    (I forgot to quote in my answer above)
   
    It didnt work at all .. it really likes a stock A500 type config.
 

 
  Did you turn off Fastmem?
 

 
  Yep..


Eric Gus

Posts 398
15 May 2020 07:25


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  degrader  for the Amiga.
 

Thats an interesting idea .. didnt try it .. maybe if I feel motivated to bang my head against the wall again i'll see if it works..


Chris T.

Posts 118
15 May 2020 12:55


Hi Gunnar, sorry for My late Reply.
      Yes, currently I am only using Coffin with My 2 Vampires (A500/1200).
      Let me say like this. The Amiga is a Retro Computer for me. The Vampire lift My lovely childhood Computer to upper Limits which Ends up to better GUI grafics and multimedia support (e.g. MP3, Pics, Internet).
     
    I love the original classic Maschine, but I love also the Vampire! It would be the perfect Symbiose, if both Advantages of each "world" would come together with a simple shut on/off of the Turbo mode. I guess the turtle mode is the Right direction, but not flawlessly working yet. By any Chance, I would really love to Downgrade the Vampire to only MC68000, 7-25 Mhz, 1-2 MB chip, slow ram (512k) and kick 1.3/3.1. With that the majority of the classic disk games would work very well. Why not WHDLoad? Because I like the original handling of disks either to Play directly with them or to use the original install process on HDD.
     
      Without the disks, it's is like to take out a bit of the Soul of the Amiga 500/1200.
     
      I am convinced, once the Vampire Team takes time to fix that, for much more USERS would the Vampire even more a instant buy, especially if you plan to go beyond the Amiga fan base of A1k.org, EAB or Amibay.
     
      Do not Forget how many have their old disk and especially orginal disk on their Basement or attic :). And yes, alot still work!

As an example: How many People were Kind of dissappointed, that the ARMIGA Emulation console with the floppy disk was not able to read directly from disk to Play the game, but only make ADF's from (non-original disks).


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 4788
18 May 2020 07:17


Chris T. wrote:

  I can still access the main harddisk of Coffin and can run w/o problems for instance FATE GATES OF DAWN HD INSTALLATION GAME ICON. Why does this not work with the maintanance mode?
 

 
We need to look for the reaons.
Some reasons have nothing to do with the Vampire but with your WB.
 
AMIGA Chipset can run either in OCS or AGA mode.
You can "switch" the AMIGA chipset to one of these modes.
When the Amiga is powered on, then the Chipset is in OCS mode.
When you boot a complete installed WB - then it will switch to AGA mode. This happens as soon the line with Setpatch is executed in your Startup-sequence.
 
Old OCS games can not handle AGA mode.
WHDLOAD will before starting a game, turn off AGA mode and switch back to OCS mode. And when you boot from a WB installer floppy then the AGA mode is probably also not enabled yet.
Your full WB installation of course switches to AGA mode.
 
Mind that this behavior is defined by how AMIGA OS works and how your Workbench installation is setup.
 


Chris T.

Posts 118
18 May 2020 09:45


Thanks Gunnar...but do Not forget, the NeW Amiga which will be a Hit seller is...
  The V4 and Build on top of it the refurbished and modified PC floppies with an Original Design of the Amiga and You/we got it!!What a Great VAMIGA!!

posts 19