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Vampire 4, All the Same Speed?page  1 2 3 

Thierry Atheist

Posts 612
29 Dec 2017 20:26


Thank you Gunnar. That was very informative.

So the answer is "no, there isn't a faster FPGA that can be bought and put into the socket on the Vampire 4".

That texture demo was in 640x360, it was AMAZING!

AMOS (Professional) supports 640x400 resolution (it flickers on my 1084), can't wait to get my hands on the standalone Vampire 4 (it won't flicker!) on a flatscreen!!!!!!

~1GHz 68060!!!!!!!!!!+!x999,999,990


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 247
30 Dec 2017 02:47


Thierry Atheist wrote:

 
  ~1GHz 68060!!!!!!!!!!+!x999,999,990

that's not really what he said...
he said that those texture thingies that they made would have required 1Ghz or thereabout of an 060 cpu, but not on the 080 with AMMX, since those instructions and the design of the core makes it possible.
it's not like the vampire runs like a 060 at 1 Ghz


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 204
30 Dec 2017 02:58


That's just Thierry being over-the-top Thierry.
 
Surely you have noticed by now Thierry appears to be in permanent caffeine overdrive?  ;)

Have a great new year everyone!!


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 247
31 Dec 2017 02:56


Lol I guess xD alright, every group on any website needs someone like him I guess. Nothing but love for the Amiga, and its entire user base ;)

Happy new year!


Rachel Windsor

Posts 6
11 Jan 2018 00:33


I wonder if there is any real hard limit to the clockspeed of these FPGA chips? Sorry if this is a dumb question; I don't know too much about them. :p


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 204
11 Jan 2018 01:09


Hi Rachel - welcome to the forum.

Good question. FPGAs do have a hard clock speed limit. The on-paper limit is controlled both by the product generation and the speed grade within that generation.

However in reality the effective speed seen by the end-user is limited by the complexity of the design implemented in the FPGA. This is where the "smarts" of the designer make a big difference.

Cheers!




Rachel Windsor

Posts 6
11 Jan 2018 01:51


Hmm, so it's largely up to the designer to make the best of it performance wise. Thanks!

Also thanks for the welcome. ^_^ I'm a big Amiga fan and I think the Vampire is a great way to ressurrect people's love for Amiga using modern hardware, without having to resort to really expensive PPC setups. I think extending and modding is a big part of the Amiga-community, and I don't think those AmigaOne PPC PC's uphold that spirit anymore.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to ramble haha.


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 204
11 Jan 2018 03:52


No apologies needed!

This is a very cool and exciting project. I am sure the development team gets some of their motivation from great feedback like yours.




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 745
11 Jan 2018 19:26


Thierry Atheist wrote:

  Thank you Gunnar. That was very informative.
  So the answer is "no, there isn't a faster FPGA that can be bought and put into the socket on the Vampire 4".
 

 
  No, but can come naturaly in next gen.
 
  Current "product" page gives a hint of CPU performance ratio of V4 Vamp over V2 Vamp. How mighty ApolloFPU will be remains to be seen.
 
  Vampire 500 V4
  Performance is application dependent:
  up to ~ 1000MHz 68030 / 500MHz 68040 / 250MHz 68060
 
  Vampire 500 V2+
  Performance is application dependent:
  up to ~ 800MHz 68030 / 400MHz 68040 / 200MHz 68060
 


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 247
11 Jan 2018 22:46


Rachel Windsor wrote:

Hmm, so it's largely up to the designer to make the best of it performance wise. Thanks!
 
  Also thanks for the welcome. ^_^ I'm a big Amiga fan and I think the Vampire is a great way to ressurrect people's love for Amiga using modern hardware, without having to resort to really expensive PPC setups. I think extending and modding is a big part of the Amiga-community, and I don't think those AmigaOne PPC PC's uphold that spirit anymore.
 
  I'm sorry, I don't mean to ramble haha.

Hey... rambling is cool! At least when it comes to Amiga stuff and when it makes sense xD
Anyhoo, I totally agree on the ppc front. Some software, like games, were made to take advantage of ppc in classic Amigas with 68k cpus as well, and that was pretty cool. Amiga OS 4.x on fully native ppc is pretty ok as well, I guess, but a more modern 68k core makes alot more sense.
I believe in the future, the Apollo core cpus that are gonna be released in ASIC form are gonna blow everything else out of the water, many times over. Especially since the RTG core will most likely be implemented right into the same chip too.


Obetto Sannala

Posts 59
12 Jan 2018 08:37


@Mallagan

Is going ASIC a dream or a real project?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 745
12 Jan 2018 10:49


Obetto Sannala wrote:

@Mallagan
 
  Is going ASIC a dream or a real project?

Currently is a pipedream, but there is a way to turn FPGA design to ASIC. However, Gunnar has stated:

a) It needs to be "carved" end project that cannot have added features. I suppose some GOLD4+ core release might qualify

b)To get really lower price out of it, you need a lot of demand and money to get it done.


Martin Soerensen

Posts 149
12 Jan 2018 10:52


Obetto Sannala wrote:
Is going ASIC a dream or a real project?

An ASIC would require someone giving up a big pile of cash so I very much doubt that is a real project for now. So it is probably a dream but sometimes dreams can come true. :-)


Chris Dennett

Posts 48
12 Jan 2018 11:27


One of us needs to win the lottery ;)


Obetto Sannala

Posts 59
12 Jan 2018 12:07


What does that mean money-wise? how man $ are needed to produce ASIC Processors?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3089
12 Jan 2018 12:21


Obetto Sannala wrote:

  What does that mean money-wise? how man $ are needed to produce ASIC Processors?
 

 
APOLLO 68080 is internally designed like other modern CPUs.
You can compare the internal design of APOLLO 68080 with modern chips produced by ARM/IBM/INTEL.
 
The internal pipeline and structure is very similar to CIA CENTAUR.
These VIA chips reached over 1500 MHz in a today relative old ASIC technology. Aiming for Gigaherz goals are realistic for APOLLO.
 
ASIC production is costly. We talk here in orders of halve million dollar budget.
 
For sure APOLLO would ever be produced as ASIC it will outclass the PowerPC Neo AMIGAs.
 
ASIC is a far goal which we today not promise you.
 
We can promise you today, that you get the world fastest 68K CPU - even when using low clock FPGAs.
 


Obetto Sannala

Posts 59
12 Jan 2018 12:29


Holy cow. Half a million? Let's just focus on FPGA... @Mallagan: Are you still sure that the ASIC will be released in the future? Who should pay development & production? Kickstarter?


Thierry Atheist

Posts 612
12 Jan 2018 12:47


I believe.........

...that it will happen!!!!!!!


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 204
12 Jan 2018 13:22



That half-million is only about $50 per chip amortized over 10,000 chips.

I don't know what the cost is to produce the chips themselves on top of that.

But I believe it was discussed earlier that the ASICs would end up faster and cheaper than the current FPGA as long as a minimum qty is manufactured.

10,000 isn't that many chips, really. Considering how many Vampire (V7?) would likely be sold at that speed level! :)

But yes this is a way out yet.


Calaminici Davide

Posts 10
12 Jan 2018 14:25


How much an asic could cost
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EXTERNAL LINK

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