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Supporting the OPEN SOURCE AMIGApage  1 2 3 4 

Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
29 May 2017 12:02


wawa t wrote:

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

    Ah, we are setpatch free :-)
   

    no. we are not. setpatch remains to take care of other platform dependant specific issues on amiga-m68k. but one should not compare it to what setpatch on genuine amiga os is.
   
    aros if booting from amiga kickstat reboots only once, other than that it doesnt reboot at ball. it is still the very same package/iso that boots on all amiga platforms without modifications. the platform gets recognized on the fly, optimisations get  enabled and no tweaking, no library version mess is necessary.

Thanks for in-depth. Small progress, but progress. Less patching, cleaner it gets. I could only wish e.g. there was one OS4 that could to the same :-) Good approach. MorphOS style?



Wawa T

Posts 459
29 May 2017 12:34


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Small progress, but progress. Less patching, cleaner it gets.

small progress? as of yesterday:

21:39 Changeset in AROS [54753] von NicJA If setpatch is present, run it.
20:56 Changeset in AROS [54752] von neil Better MUI compatibility for Window class: - Return zero for current …
19:33 Changeset in AROS [54751] von neil Better MUI compatibility: don't use MUIV_Window_TopEdge_Delta, which …
16:10 Changeset in AROS [54750] von NicJA drop the copymem patching since it is handled in exec.
13:29 Changeset in AROS [54749] von twilen ModelStringBuffer? was too small for Apollo, fix FPU strings if EC CPU …
13:25 Changeset in AROS [54748] von twilen ADDR32 changed.
04:04 Changeset in AROS [54747] von NicJA show the ec version of 030
04:01 Changeset in AROS [54746] von NicJA Show the correct cache sizes for the apollo core.
03:10 Changeset in AROS [54745] von NicJA fix the format template so that the cpu model is shown correctly.
03:09 Changeset in AROS [54744] von NicJA remove some whitespace 02:33 Changeset in AROS [54743] von NicJA typo
01:24 Changeset in AROS [54742] von NicJA check if the CPU has the Apollo 68080 addiw.l instruction. If it has, …
01:19 Changeset in AROS [54741] von NicJA tidy formatting
01:17 Changeset in AROS [54740] von NicJA bump the copyright notice.
01:16 Changeset in AROS [54739] von NicJA # always default to 68000 # show the EC version of 020 and EC/LC …
01:14 Changeset in AROS [54738] von NicJA use USER_INCLUDES
00:24 Changeset in AROS [54737] von NicJA Add AttnFlags? for the Apollo'080, and MMU presence. Use the bit …


  I could only wish e.g. there was one OS4 that could to the same :-) Good approach. MorphOS style?

you have been burned with os4 and you still wish for it? so, what have we been saying about stockholm syndrome..

for your information: no matter that os4 doesnt even exist for 68k, it has much higher memory requirements, which make it barely usable with 128mb ram and is likely to be slower, when compiled for the same platform, not to mention less compatible (when it comes to amiga device drivers as example).

im not sure though, what "morphos style" means..



Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 425
29 May 2017 12:39


as Wawa wrote a lot of activity right now with many additions and optimizations for Aros 68k right now. I am very happy with that right now.
   
    Which progress is on MorphOS? When was last update?
    Same for AmigaOS
   
    I do not know what you really expect and why you still promote alien PPC hardware or closed source OS4 software here, despite your personal experiences. If they are reasonable and want to do business developers or companies from other platforms will jump the driving train or will be left in the dark. If they think different nothing will change that, not even you.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
29 May 2017 14:28



    MOS Style -  That it works and that adjusts itself to hardware from one single installation :-)

Yes, we are all waiting for now a bit mythical 3.10 and x5000 support. Nobody knows why it is delayed for MOS standard cycles.
   
    Yes I have seen OS4 on SAm460 512mb RAM so I am aware it is memory hungry. Have 2GB + 2GB as "Object memory", memory reallocation is close to non-existant. Surely, softreser solves it, but ...
   
    What I meant is a nice feature I wish OS4 has is:
    - Recognizing hardware
    - Optimizing really for it
   
    Nothing more, and nothing less. Not meaning to "promote" anything.
   
    I am glad for all the quick advancements, keep updating AROS 68k and I will try any build. Looking forward to it becoming better.
 
  And I will leave this thread to developers, since you tend to find rather positive comments insulting.


Wawa T

Posts 459
29 May 2017 14:33



    - Recognizing hardware
    - Optimizing really for it
 

 
  same approach on aros. os4 has dedicated separate version for every (ppc) sub-platform. and even then things are working on one and non working on other i hear. doesnt seem exactly portable.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
29 May 2017 14:35


Exactly. Example is that SAM440 version has a working WOS suport, when I bitch library doesnt work on x1000 they say its "irrelevant" :-)

And I believe yours (AROS, MOS) approach is the right one, and I salute you. No promotion intended.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
01 Jun 2017 10:56


Simo posted a video of "Amiga 2000 / Vampire 500 V2 + PicassoIV AROS (20170529)"
EXTERNAL LINK 
Apollo'080 detection test, screenmode 1024x768/16-bit (Zorro II)

Thanks! We are official en AROS route!

Ian and Olaf have given nice exponations why and how this matters at AW.net which I will copy paste, thanks to Wawa for posting Simos video!

IAN on No need for emulation under AROS 68k

"Most games don't use much from the operating system and Aros68k is binary compatible with Amiga OS3.1 anyway. The Apollo Core of the Vampire has a CPU that implements all the (integer) instructions of all the Motorola 680x0 so any games that use instructions from the 68020 that are not included in the 68040 or 68060 will still boot from floppy on a Vampire. However some games have issues with any faster processor, WHDLoad has fixes for those and the Vampire also has a setting to improve compatibility. In the future the Vampire is also likely to allow AGA only games to be played on the OCS and ECS Amigas"

OLAF: Why is AROS 68k out of box way improved then vannila OS3.1/even OS 3.9 in some aspects

if compiled for 68k it is from view of software like 3.1 with similar or identical API

Software does not need to be compiled for Aros, just that the libraries are compiled from Aros sources and not the original ones. When Aros was ported to 68k Toni Wilen did a great job to develop kickstart replacements that are now part of Aros. For a long time Aros 68k lived there only used by few people then Vampire/Apollo became reality and Aros offers many advantages there. At the moment limitations (f.e. in certain graphic areas) and bugs are removed then Aros will run on Vampire. It has many advantages compared to 3.1 and still only low hardware requirements, like AHI, USB-Support (Poseidon), Themeing, Network stack and much more



Matthew Langtry

Posts 130
30 May 2018 19:44


So is the official stance from Apollo Team now not supporting open source now?


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3395
30 May 2018 19:45


Matthew Langtry wrote:

So is the official stance from Apollo Team now not supporting open source now?

Why you make this up?
You know that we did not say this.


Matthew Langtry

Posts 130
30 May 2018 19:56


ok misunderstood sorry.



John William

Posts 246
30 May 2018 22:00


heheh there is something about Gunnar von Boehn's authoritative personality makes you shrivel like a kid and say, "I am sowwy."


Miroslav Parvanov

Posts 4
31 May 2018 00:18


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

...
  But going for an ASIC is not only a lot of work but will need a lot of funding. We will need really a lot of money for this we talk million $ here.
 
  Its clear that the chances to get this funding are higher if we not open source Apollo today.
 

Philippe Lang managed to collect about half a million $ with two A1200 and A500 cases campaigns and one for keycaps. I'm sure that if you start a crowdfunding campaign at the right time it would be an achievable goal, considering that your project would have a tremendous impact on Amiga's future.



John William

Posts 246
31 May 2018 01:06


Miroslav Parvanov wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  ...
  But going for an ASIC is not only a lot of work but will need a lot of funding. We will need really a lot of money for this we talk million $ here.
 
  Its clear that the chances to get this funding are higher if we not open source Apollo today.
 
 

 
  Philippe Lang managed to collect about half a million $ with two A1200 and A500 cases campaigns and one for keycaps. I'm sure that if you start a crowdfunding campaign at the right time it would be an achievable goal, considering that your project would have a tremendous impact on Amiga's future.
 

And people tease me that I am always dreaming when it comes to Amiga. - Shakes Head -



M Rickan

Posts 139
31 May 2018 02:52


Miroslav Parvanov wrote:

  Philippe Lang managed to collect about half a million $ with two A1200 and A500 cases campaigns and one for keycaps. I'm sure that if you start a crowdfunding campaign at the right time it would be an achievable goal, considering that your project would have a tremendous impact on Amiga's future.
 

 
  Atari console enthusiasts are making a pretty convincing case:
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

  USD$2 million isn't a bad start for 1 day.


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 320
02 Jun 2018 23:00


Andrew Copland wrote:

Thierry Atheist wrote:

   
Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
To Support this Open Movement, we hereby announce that we will open source SAGA (the enhanced AMIGA chipset).
 

  However, why do this?
   
  I don't like this at all. Everybody worked really hard to achieve creating S-AGA, and now, if you give it away, anyone else can run out and gain financial benefit from it, rather than you (the group)!!!!
 

 
  Are you kidding? This is good news!
 
  Keeping SAGA proprietary would have limited adoption, now it means that others could integrate it _however_ I imagine that they'll need to add things to existing FPGA based boards such as bigger/faster FPGAs, more RAM etc because the Vampire boards have set a minimum standard (128MB)
 
  Also all previous attempts to do things with the Amiga chipset have all failed, because they were proprietary standards. Closed off and with paid for SDK's etc.
 
  This avoids all of that and I think it's a really great move which garuantees SAGAs future.

Ok, so I get what you both mean, but... there is no ”guarantee”, to be realistic, but things DO look really bright. I like it

@Thierry, I believe I see one point that you’re afraid of, that someone is gonna take the SAGA source, change things in it to their own needs, succeed and have a branch of, and we wont have a standard. Am I right?
However, I don’t think that will really happen. It took A-team some time to build it, and most people would just think ”great! Let’s use this!” Others might wanna go over it, implement stuff, but most likely ultimately fail, because they didn’t design it.
I’m not a programmer, or a core designer, but I DO know that changing stuff in someone elses program source code and turn it into something similar but different, is usually harder than building your own stuff. I believe the same would apply here.

If there are improvements done to the SAGA core further on, I believe those will always come from the A-team, unless someone really good would try his luck with it. I don’t see this as likely to happen.

I believe this is only good. All good.


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 320
02 Jun 2018 23:02


Mr Niding wrote:

  Isnt even the quite generous bounty just a drop in the bucket when you start to talk about ASIC?
 

 
No
Any contribution to that would only be good


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 320
02 Jun 2018 23:47


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

  The SAGA design can satisfy all users wishes (truecolor/aga/sprites/copper/full HD) easily even in consumer grade FPGAs.
 

Hi Gunnar. I agree with everything you said in this post, point to point, except for this quote.
Hear me out.
”All user’s wishes”? My wish is 1080p in 60Hz. You and me talked about this before, we don’t need to get into that. Now, don’t think that I mean to lecture you or anyone, that’s not my intention, just hear me out.

I’ve referenced the latest ” legend of Zelda” game before here, Breath of the wild. That’s the title (for anyone who might not know)
On the Wii U, that game runs in 720p, at about (I believe, I must add) 24 fps
This is good. That resolution is good for games. In Workbench, yes, you can use 1080p for working in programs and such, this is great.

The keywords here are ”all user’s wishes” and ”easilly even in consumer grade FPGAs”
So, quite expensive and fast FPGAs that a consumer can get... might be expensive, BUT accessible. In ASIC you could run the core in higher clock speeds, and display even 4K resolution in perhaps 75 Hz mode. I’m guessing, but this isn’t the case with the FPGA that’s on the V2

I remember that you told me to please not mislead people with false numbers posted by Elbox about the speed of the Mediator, that this was false advertisement from Elbox’s side, just to sell the mediator. I bought into it, and I didn’t know the real limitstions, that was my bad. Don’t do the same mistake as Elbox. 720p is a good resolution, and that can be ”easilly done” with consumer grade FPGAs. This is honest, and good


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 320
03 Jun 2018 00:10


Thierry Atheist wrote:

And others can grab what is good about S-AGA and put it to use in nVidia cards or custom PCIe cards, and run it using linux, mac or win-dos.... and I'm SURE we'll benefit from THAT!!!!
 
  And Team Apollo Core and Amiga Community get SFA.

Come on, man. Relax. That’s not something that would happen, not something to worry about


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