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Supporting the OPEN SOURCE AMIGApage  1 2 3 4 

Aksel Andersen

Posts 109
16 May 2017 12:38


Marlon Beijer wrote:

Aksel Andersen wrote:

 
Thierry Atheist wrote:

      And others can grab what is good about S-AGA and put it to use in nVidia cards ....
     

     
      You.. must... be... joking?!?
     
   
    edit: This forum could need an active moderator to remove static like this.. it's hard to reccomend this forum to former Amigans when this babble and hype is all over the place..
     
 

  They were going to switch to a more modern forum  (the apollo-accelerators forum), but people tend to go here instead because none of the proper people are there to answer questions.

I like that forum. Very informative and to the point.



Nixus Minimax

Posts 239
16 May 2017 12:54


Marlon Beijer wrote:
They were going to switch to a more modern forum  (the apollo-accelerators forum), but people tend to go here instead because none of the proper people are there to answer questions.

I tend to come here because the other forum is light-grey on dark-grey. Heck, I'm aging and so are my eyes!




Thierry Atheist

Posts 618
16 May 2017 13:02


Okay, can you indulge me when I turn it around? Why bother hiding ANYTHING then?

Why not simply open source the 68080 CPU too? AMMX? FPU?

I prefer nothing be revealed, UNLESS they abandon the project. And then, it's up to them if they are willing to disclose all.

Now, if the argument is "many people can look at the code, and maybe spot errors/create improvements". Can't they circulate to known people in the community with a proven track record? Who decides who that would be? Well, not me, but I believe that they know the circle of people that would be capable of benefiting the project, if at all possible.

Olaf Schoenweiss and Wawa T, don't get on a high horse about "who's doing what", when it's been you two harassing me over on AmigaWorld.Net and Amiga.Org since 2002-3. CONSTANTLY spreading FUD about AmigaOnes and AOS4.x and Hyperion and Alan Redhouse and Hans Jörg and Thomas Frieden (and on and on) NEVERENDINGLY.

I'm simply saying, "I don't think it's the right thing to do, and they have the ability to do whatever they want to. I hope they don't."

I said why I see it that way.

I'm not breaking anything. I'm not putting the project down. I'm not going to leave and tell others that this isn't worth owning over this.

This is a bad idea. Fragmentation is a bad idea.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
16 May 2017 13:36


Lets stop this discussion now.

Thierry please look at it from "sharing information" and "helping others" point of view.

We always tried to share information.
We tried our best to give information, examples, and explanation on how to design a modern high end CPU.
We wrote for many years examples and bit and pieces of information about this.

We were always doing our best to share and help others.



Thierry Atheist

Posts 618
16 May 2017 14:01


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
Lets stop this discussion now.

Hi Gunnar.

Thank you for letting me voice my concerns.

I hope this works out the way you view it.

I just want what's best as well.



Rob M

Posts 35
17 May 2017 21:20


@Thierry

Opening the SAGA core means that anyone can modify the VHDL sources with bug fixing, optimisation and new features that can benefit the vampire core.  That is the main reason for opening SAGA.

There might be uses for the SAGA core outside the Vampire project but such projects wouldn't be competing with the Vampire hardware so nothing to worry about.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
24 May 2017 17:46


Thierry Atheist wrote:

Olaf Schoenweiss and Wawa T, don't get on a high horse about "who's doing what", when it's been you two harassing me over on AmigaWorld.Net and Amiga.Org since 2002-3. CONSTANTLY spreading FUD about AmigaOnes and AOS4.x and Hyperion and Alan Redhouse and Hans Jörg and Thomas Frieden (and on and on) NEVERENDINGLY.

Without any intention to continue the above discussion, criticism
of any camp is a legit thing. Should it be done on one of the faithfuls board? Try to avoid it, but yet if its fair criticism that should be encouraged. Trolling shouldnt.

Now, beyond past.

a) Since Vampire is currently a hardware project its hard to see worthness of open source. You can all testify Vampire team seems to be most open and communicative of all, and is at least of a LCC or corporate entity so no "added bullshit value at all" :-) Simple compare to "Amiga curses"

b) Surely, big trouble of this "new inedependent league" as that is something that actually unites the camp. AROS is in process of Vampirization I hope, and our PPC brothers MOS and AOS 4.x while its hardly to expect will be backported, can only earn some more avail software if some pure 68k+RTG development continues.

Plus since Vampire is until ASIC limited in horsepower, Vampire success brings people back to Amiga and MIGHT raise interest in MOS and AOS 4.x too, especially with less expensive Tabor board, that I suppose might get MOS support too. As well as we know OS 4.x and MOS have come to almost an par in feature and software options, so it seems time of less competition and more unity have finally come IN FACE OF EXTINCTION and NEED OF PROGRESS :-)

Historically, Vampire well fits "the proper timing of release in Amiga universe" - just about we were in standstil, Majsta and Kipper reinvented the wheel :-) For example, Vampire spread might give a good ground to AEON to have backporting not only of Enhancer and PPaint, but of all possible software they purchased. Since Classic + Vampire market is bigger, that could essentialy fund MOS/AOS 4.x development.

A lot of win wins can be found, if people think proper way.


Dusko Kovacic

Posts 21
24 May 2017 20:56


OS4 / PPC is a overpriced dead end without proper vision and logistics.
Its out there for years now and it brought 0 of decent and proper apps.

A platform without decent  apps  has no worth even if it has all
the licenses from the old C=.

Vampire / AROS makes more logic. Perfect move into future of classic
Amiga systems. Manny people heard for it, more are about to be intrigued
back to Amiga system. Not to mention that it will simnifically boost the AROS
development. Apollo team has vision. That is more than obvious by now.

cant wait to grab one of standalones...




Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
24 May 2017 21:42


Dusko Kovacic wrote:

OS4 / PPC is a overpriced dead end without proper vision and logistics.
  Its out there for years now and it brought 0 of decent and proper apps.  A platform without decent  apps  has no worth even if it has all  the licenses from the old C=.
  cant wait to grab one of standalones...

Nothing is dead until is dead. OS 4.x is quite nice advance from OS 3.x, its just too undirected, and most of them would be hard to implement back, even if desired.

I agree, failure to bring improved browser (Timberwolf was suposed to be finalized and based on FF18+ see exiting proof of laiziness - EXTERNAL LINK  decent Office (Libre) and some AAA game (Tower 57?) has brough nice OS and some nice user made apps, but quite unusable without "killer or decent apps".

Best move of AEON was getting the proprietary licences to develop Octamed, ImageFX, Alladin, Personal Paint etc. and I would prefer to see those to Enhancer and some candies they are doing today to milk some money.

If money is needed, its better to Kickstart with some fund goal, then to milk users with outsourced OS apps and updated games to work.

Sadly, Vampire is in same or similar situation with plus ability to utilize many 68k apps (in fact, once FPU and Warp or other 3D support is done, it will be full compatibility).

Cant wait to grab standalone too, but I hope software situation would improve, plus Vampire itself, core by core.

And defenetely instead of Xorro, high end NGs (A1x1000/x5000) should have huge FPGAs instead of cursed Xorro. Then NG users or Hype boys could license Vampire and offer 101% Classic compatibility out of box. Or using other core for sandboxed Linux / JIT emulated Classic. However, Classic and even pUP/WOS compatibility (existed, dropped after SAM440) werent "inetersting" and really advanced software that would be un par with new hardware never materialized, cause it was never really planned.

So, as much as hardware, or even more, good software would be great.

On office matter, what happened to crazy Papyrous Office?
EXTERNAL LINK


Steve Ferrell

Posts 207
25 May 2017 08:25


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

 
  Nothing is dead until is dead. OS 4.x is quite nice advance from OS 3.x, its just too undirected, and most of them would be hard to implement back, even if desired.
 

 
  Trust me.  OS4 is dead and has been for a long time.  As for it being a nice advance over OS3, so was Windows 98......19 years ago.  The only advances in OS4 since 2003 have been patches to allow it to run on ever more scarce and expensive PPC processors and some other patches to fix its still buggy USB support.  There have been a few 3D improvements but none of them can be attributed to Hyperion, and even with these improvements, OS4's graphics capabilities are still stuck in 2003.  Heck, the current version of OS4 has rough feature parity with Windows 98.
 
  And I can say that because I WAS an OS4 user but gave up on it and Hyperion's promises around 2007.  And even now, 10 years after I ditched OS4, they say they're still working on memory protection, SMP, multi-user support, an office suite, etc......yeah, right.....don't hold your breath.
 


Kalamatee (AROS)

Posts 15
26 May 2017 04:55


For giggles I tried running the gallium software rasterizer - and surprisingly it ran, though painfully slow.

EXTERNAL LINK 


Wawa T

Posts 473
26 May 2017 05:21


oh man, i have run this years ago;) but of course doesnt make practical sense, especially you need some 256mb to run it as i remember.
 

does it take advantage of your improvements to gfx tonight?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
26 May 2017 10:17


Steve Ferrell wrote:

    And I can say that because I WAS an OS4 user but gave up on it and Hyperion's promises around 2007.  And even now, 10 years after I ditched OS4, they say they're still working on memory protection, SMP, multi-user support, an office suite, etc......yeah, right.....don't hold your breath.

 
  Lucky bastard, I have fallen to x1000 release charm which promised OS 4.2, Libre and Timberwolf :-)
 
  Can agree as OS 4.x user since 2012 (update 5 to F1u1+Enhancer).
  Most of good things are simply NOT coming as part of OS (RadeonHD driver, Enhancer etc.) which is sad for baseline.
 
  But with Enhancer, new video player, last Odyssey port etc. it really is becoming modern usable, just an office and e.g. ports and updated apps AEON purchased would make it a usable desktop.
 
  I could ran my office on Russian Windows recreation ReactOS which in between of Win95 and WinXP (uses NT kernel and some dlls to run software with 95 style GUI :-) and I am said they closed the PPC branch.
 
  Additional power with developed RadeonHD drivers (big up Hans!) can do a lot, incoming Tower57 port shows a modern games could be done for it.
 
  My revamped interest in Classic is result of yes, inablity of Amiga Inc and Hyperion to do much good with it.
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
26 May 2017 10:18


Kalamatee (AROS) wrote:

For giggles I tried running the gallium software rasterizer - and surprisingly it ran, though painfully slow.
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

My x1000 cant Gallium that one FPS :-)

1FPS is good beginning of 3D on Vampire.

Please optimize :-)


Wawa T

Posts 473
26 May 2017 11:27



  1FPS is good beginning of 3D on Vampire.
 

  its not on vampire. its under emu. i wrote that softpipe needs 256mb, except if its kals own, non public mesa 10 port. then it may differ.


Wawa T

Posts 473
28 May 2017 19:07


today aros has received a number of commits enabling detection of 68k range of cpus, among others apollo core. the integration has started. thanks, kalamatee.


Wawa T

Posts 473
28 May 2017 21:43


thank to some gfx speedup patches and cpu detection further optimisations could have been enabled, which makes aros much faster. i can handle it on an a4000/3640/25mhz/16mb/picasso4. its pretty stable, have not had a crash yet.
 
  the problem when setting different resolution (bogus values leading to a crash eventually) has been also resoved and setpatch doesnt need to be manually included into the s-s anymore.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
29 May 2017 09:06


Ah, we are setpatch free :-)
Small step for AROS but big for Startup-Sequence :-)

Kudos for all the works :-)
Life has purpose again :-)

Hope some 2017 public release will be done in time :-)


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 427
29 May 2017 10:08


yes lots of 68k activity on aros now, even apollo specific
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  :-)
 
  hurrah to all involved


Wawa T

Posts 473
29 May 2017 11:48


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  Ah, we are setpatch free :-)
 

  no. we are not. setpatch remains to take care of other platform dependant specific issues on amiga-m68k. but one should not compare it to what setpatch on genuine amiga os is.
 
  aros if booting from amiga kickstat reboots only once, other than that it doesnt reboot at ball. it is still the very same package/iso that boots on all amiga platforms without modifications. the platform gets recognized on the fly, optimisations get  enabled and no tweaking, no library version mess is necessary.

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