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AROS 68k for 68080page  1 2 3 4 5 6 

Michael R

Posts 249
23 Apr 2017 20:37


Recently we had a conversation with Wawa T and Olaf about using AROS 68k on the Vampire accelerators. There was a problem with the AROS IDE code that prevented it from booting up on Vampire cards, and to some degree the same problem on Amiga 4000.
 
  About a year ago there was discussion in the AROS 68k forum about the AROS Vision RTG code and how it became sluggish or unresponsive on Vampire accelerators. Have these performance issues been resolved?
 
  Has anyone successfully booted up AROS Vision (68k) on a Vampire accelerator card recently? Does it work? What are your experiences?


Michael R

Posts 249
24 Apr 2017 02:35


Question: Since the Micro SD card reader is mounted to the Vampire accelerator card does it use the IDE bus to boot, or is it different? If the IDE Boot Issue for AROS 68k persists would it be possible to boot something like AROS Vision from Micro SD to circumvent the IDE?




Wawa T

Posts 435
25 Apr 2017 01:31


where is an aros68k forum?
 
  as far as im informed sd slot is not bootable.
 
  other than that i dont think much has been improved performance wise on aros68k lately. on the contrary, im just tracking down an issue that makes amiga applications that worked on aros few months ago currently fail. snoopdos and free pascal utils among others. probably related to smp refractoring in exec.
 
  well. an open system defeats its purpose, when none is ready to contribute. whatever..


Michael R

Posts 249
25 Apr 2017 02:48


wawa t wrote:

  where is an aros68k forum?
   
    as far as im informed sd slot is not bootable.
   
    other than that i dont think much has been improved performance wise on aros68k lately. on the contrary, im just tracking down an issue that makes amiga applications that worked on aros few months ago currently fail. snoopdos and free pascal utils among others. probably related to smp refractoring in exec.
   
    well. an open system defeats its purpose, when none is ready to contribute. whatever..
 

 
  Not AROS forum. AROS-Exec I suppose.
 
  If the micro sd isn't bootable for AROS 68k then we're back to the ide issue. Interestingly, after adjusting the configuration and allocating the resources correctly AROS Vision 68k booted. But just after loading Directory Opus I got lots of memory errors! AROS Vision seems buggy!
 
  However, the distribution of plain AROS 68k you pointed me to (the German site) started and worked fine in WinUAE. (But the big white icons weren't very attractive. I wanted to change them. Maybe later)
 
  So it seems there are at least two separate versions of AROS intended for use on 68k cpu's. AROS Vision that doesn't work well but comes with lots of nice eye candy and 1.2GB of software and utilities. It just won't work at the moment. Then there is plain AROS 68k with less demanding icons and graphics that works but it isn't loaded down with extras! Are we talking about two different versions of AROS 68k here?
 
  If plain AROS 68k (white icons) starts in WinUAE without issue why wouldn't it work on Vampire accelerators? Has anyone tried that?

(Instead of Plain AROS 68k I wish for a better name. "AROS Fusion" if we are going to integrate and intertwine it's functions with 68080 + SAGA),


Michael R

Posts 249
25 Apr 2017 04:27


I have a vision but not just AROS Vision!
         
          It's a glimpse of what AROS 68k can become while tightly integrated to work with the Apollo 68080 CPU and the Super AGA chipset. It's a harmonious FUSION of all the above!
         
          At it's heart will be AROS 68k or AROS Vision, but like Amiga OS it will be lightweight, fast, responsive and highly configurable!
         
          At startup is a simple cofigurable Boot Screen (Kitty? Or Vampire 68080?). That changes to a blank Title Bar, Grey Background and simple progress dialog "Loading AROS FUSION..."
         
          At the AROS Desktop on top left of Title Bar is the System Area beginning with System Icon (small AROS EYE). Click on the icon presents the System Menu containing system tools (This [Amiga] Computer), Benchmarks, and quick prefs, etc. The system icon is configurable. System Prefs controls the Title Bar notification icons and text, far left and far right.
         
          Right Click Menu is configurable. Items may be AROS, Tools, Apps, etc. The way my system works: select an icon, right click on Tools, "Multiview" (for example) displays the item (picture or text).
         
          The Quick Launch Icons at the bottom of the screen are like Icaros Desktop. And all of this in 24 bit/ 32 bit color at higher resolutions, 1024x768? (At our fingertips will be all Amiga OS and AROS have to offer, and much more!)
         
          I'm willing to put my programming skills to work! Are we there yet...?
         


Niclas A
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 148
25 Apr 2017 16:18


AROS Vision = AROS 86k = AROS Vision

AROS Vision is just the same but with extras. icons, programs, library, MUI etc etc.

That it crashes could be because of 1000 things. Maybe for example if one library is optimized for 68040 and you used 020 CPU setting in WinUAE.

The official AROS 68k is clean and only AROS code in it. And yes the icons are ugly :)

I started making a WB3.1 lookalike for AROS 68k. But as i cant distribute it if i use the original icons from WB3.1 i stopped. Then there is some things that is needed to make it usable. DOPUS or Scalos for example. And some system tools like Installer need a replacement because the included is very basic and most of the times fail when trying to install stuff.


Wawa T

Posts 435
25 Apr 2017 17:28


aros vision is a distribution of aros68k with other stuff merged in. it might be crashy because of insuficciently tested stuff, but aros itself is pretty stable. there is currently an issue with a number of genuine amiga apps, which is due to kernel changes that took place along with smp introduction. it took me hours, but i already traced it down last night. the thing is, i bet someone else will have to fix it. lets see.
 
  as niclas says, most people consider aros icon theme and skin ugly. i actually agree with it even though i have seen it so many times, i kind of look away.
 
  afair there are alternatives to the default icon set, that can be configured at compile time. have not bothered with it yet. to be distributed with aros the icons need to comply to aros license. we cannot take the ready ones.
 
  now, i started to design few icon sets, but only came so far to actually do few defaults. im particularly proud of the floppy;)
 
  my idea was to involve as much diagonals and as few single pixel horizontal lines as possible to avoid interlace flicker , but maybe it isnt an issue todaym when everybody is using flatscreens. i hesitate about the size i started with 64x64 but it might be too much, perhaps 48x48 would be a good trade off. four color or maybe eight, but the problem is to get the palette right. i dont have much time for this however, as i rather try to help with the code and not let 68k become unmaintained.
 
  so are you saying aros68k boots on vampire?
 
 


Wawa T

Posts 435
25 Apr 2017 17:41


Niclas A wrote:
DOPUS or Scalos for example. And some system tools like Installer need a replacement because the included is very basic and most of the times fail when trying to install stuff.

genuine installer is available from aminet and works with aros, except perhaps when directory tree differs, as example the location of mui classes.

scalos is available from aros contribs. just copy them over your aros boot iso conent and you can start scalos alright. the problem is, all bells and whistles it has set as default, need to be disabled, mostly for performance gain, but also its ugly to have textures and backfrounds all over the place.

the handicap is, even if scalos is started as wanderer replacement, it leaves wanderer screen behind, which eats up memory, especially chip in amiga modes. i have not found the way how to prevent this.


Michael R

Posts 249
25 Apr 2017 20:13


Niclas A wrote:

AROS Vision = AROS 86k = AROS Vision
 
  AROS Vision is just the same but with extras. icons, programs, library, MUI etc etc.
 
  That it crashes could be because of 1000 things. Maybe for example if one library is optimized for 68040 and you used 020 CPU setting in WinUAE.
 
  The official AROS 68k is clean and only AROS code in it. And yes the icons are ugly :)
 
  I started making a WB3.1 lookalike for AROS 68k. But as i cant distribute it if i use the original icons from WB3.1 i stopped. Then there is some things that is needed to make it usable. DOPUS or Scalos for example. And some system tools like Installer need a replacement because the included is very basic and most of the times fail when trying to install stuff.

Niclas,
Thanks for the information.

I kinda thought that the AROS 68k version with white icons could be
a good starting point that can be modified. Maybe some libraries will need to be optimized to run on 68080 CPU. I don't have my Vampire accelerator card yet so I can't test outside of WinUAE. Have you tried AROS 68k with Vampire yet? Does it work?




Michael R

Posts 249
25 Apr 2017 20:27


wawa t wrote:

  aros vision is a distribution of aros68k with other stuff merged in. it might be crashy because of insuficciently tested stuff, but aros itself is pretty stable. there is currently an issue with a number of genuine amiga apps, which is due to kernel changes that took place along with smp introduction. it took me hours, but i already traced it down last night. the thing is, i bet someone else will have to fix it. lets see.
   
    as niclas says, most people consider aros icon theme and skin ugly. i actually agree with it even though i have seen it so many times, i kind of look away.
   
    afair there are alternatives to the default icon set, that can be configured at compile time. have not bothered with it yet. to be distributed with aros the icons need to comply to aros license. we cannot take the ready ones.
   
    now, i started to design few icon sets, but only came so far to actually do few defaults. im particularly proud of the floppy;)
   
    my idea was to involve as much diagonals and as few single pixel horizontal lines as possible to avoid interlace flicker , but maybe it isnt an issue todaym when everybody is using flatscreens. i hesitate about the size i started with 64x64 but it might be too much, perhaps 48x48 would be a good trade off. four color or maybe eight, but the problem is to get the palette right. i dont have much time for this however, as i rather try to help with the code and not let 68k become unmaintained.
   
    so are you saying aros68k boots on vampire?
   
   
 

 
  We might have better luck starting with plain AROS 68k if it's more stable. We could improve the icons and default theme, maybe to resemble Amiga OS (glow icons?). Is there a way in AROS to replace entire icon sets? Or will they need to be replaced individually?
  I particularly like the AROS floppy disk icon.
 
  My interests are in graphics and file systems. I have an intimate knowledge of the FAT file system (Fat12/Fat16/Fat32). I also have an interest in graphics as far as GUI and especially icons. Maybe I can help there and with a format module for AROS 68k.
 
  The Tools Dock (Button Bar) I described is part of ToolManager which runs in Amiga OS, not sure yet about AROS 68k, but I'll test it. The Scalos/Wanderer issue could be a problem. Does Wanderer remain active in background with Dopus as well?
 
  My idea with the System Prefs icon at top left of the AROS Title Bar is to provide quick access to System Tools and Prefs mostly to control the functionality and display of the Title Bar icons and text along with some Benchmarking and informational tools. Not sure if someone has already done something like that but I like the idea.
 
  I have been able to start AROS 68k in WinUAE but not AROS Vision. Perhaps it's like Niclas said, the libraries were compiled for 68020 not 68040. I hadn't thought of that. I'll check and try it again. Time to work on some newer icons for AROS 68k. ;-)
 
 
 


Wawa T

Posts 435
25 Apr 2017 23:22


Michael R wrote:

    We might have better luck starting with plain AROS 68k if it's more stable.
 

  or help olaf clean his distro.
  however i see a maintenence problem here, since everything needs to be done by hand. while fixes in aros source are permement. a coombined distro is also not suitable as a base for proper testing.
 
 
 
We could improve the icons and default theme, maybe to resemble Amiga OS (glow icons?). Is there a way in AROS to replace entire icon sets?

  yes, a configuration flag at compile time as far as i know, yet never tried this.
 
 

    I particularly like the AROS floppy disk icon.
 

  i was talking about the icon-set i started to design here locally. i have not commited anything of it.
   
 
Maybe I can help there and with a format module for AROS 68k.

  there is a lot to do on all fronts. you certainly might contribute a file system handler, simply familiarize yourself with the build system, its easy i can lend a hand, get an access to dev-ml. talk to developers and eventually you can receive write access to the repo to commit your stuff.
   
 

    The Tools Dock (Button Bar) I described is part of ToolManager which runs in Amiga OS, not sure yet about AROS 68k, but I'll test it. The Scalos/Wanderer issue could be a problem. Does Wanderer remain active in background with Dopus as well?
 

 
  aros has boingiconbar in tools. wanderer remains active if you start scalos from there. its no problem, its like running dopus and worbench at the same time. the problem is when you want to substitute wanderer with scalos at boot time, since wanderer still leaves an open screen in the background without actually being active, which is annoying.
   
 
I have been able to start AROS 68k in WinUAE but not AROS Vision. Perhaps it's like Niclas said, the libraries were compiled for 68020 not 68040. I hadn't thought of that. I'll check and try it again. Time to work on some newer icons for AROS 68k. ;-)
 

  vision isnt particularly compiled with different flags. its simply build upon binary nightly release. it simply is a bit chaotic, and very huge, perhaps therefore the problems.


Michael R

Posts 249
30 Apr 2017 04:58


So far I have tried to get AROS 68k and AROS Vision running in WinUAE but with not much luck. Both versions finally booted up but now I only get half a screen in Hires and the bottom half is distorted.
 
  I also went over to AROS-Exec to sign in but their registration process is having major issues! I have a Yahoo Mail account but it says "Invalid email". I'd like to start contributing and coding for AROS 68k, Amiga OS 68k, and Icaros Desktop.
 
  I'll post photos of the graphics distortion from AROS Vision.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 393
30 Apr 2017 14:10


I hsve no interest to "clean" my distribution

everybody is free to do its own though of course


Wawa T

Posts 435
30 Apr 2017 14:12


@michaelr
have you pointed your emulator to kickstart files in boot/amiga subdirectory of your aros partition?

@olaf
no pun intended. but everything can be improved and it is better to cooperate on this rather than offer alternatives.


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 393
30 Apr 2017 14:13


and I can post pictures of Aros Vision working

I am happy with how it is now even though it realistic only works in WinUAE on fast PC

even if it would boot on Vampire it would certainly be too heavy for it


Niclas A
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 148
30 Apr 2017 15:33


Something a little less EXTERNAL LINK 
and more

EXTERNAL LINK


Michael R

Posts 249
30 Apr 2017 16:59


Niclas A wrote:

Something a little less EXTERNAL LINK 
  and more
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 

Good point. I certainly see the difference!



Michael R

Posts 249
30 Apr 2017 17:03


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  I hsve no interest to "clean" my distribution
 
  everybody is free to do its own though of course
 

 
  Hello Olaf,
  I wouldn't want you to clean up or modify AROS Vision other than to do it how you like. But it would be convenient to have an easy installation and usage guidelines for WinUAE and perhaps Vampire so that everyone can have the chance to try it. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong with the WinUAE setup.

My main interest in AROS Vision is to get a glimpse of how it looks and behaves. I'm very interested in helping to code for and improve Icaros Desktop for use with Amiga OS and Vampire. I'm very  impressed with the work done so far!


Wawa T

Posts 435
30 Apr 2017 18:25


aros68k is proven working in winuae as well as fs-uae. im using it all the time while testing. nothing complicated about this, but maybe the build you have tried is somehow broken..

have you tried bootiso form 28.04 here:
EXTERNAL LINK


Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 393
30 Apr 2017 19:16


there is a old problem when you change screenmode, then it looks like screen is cut. I thought it would have been solved already but it is in current nightly. In Aros Vision I solved it by using different screenmode prefs, not the original one

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