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Running OCS/AGA/RTG Demos

Demo Scenepage  1 2 3 

Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 123
12 Oct 2020 16:45


Maybe WE could organize a Vampire demo party ?? Would that be of interest ?


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 518
12 Oct 2020 17:04


It's an idea, but I'd like better see a Vampire demo winning the next Revision.
  But now it's not possible as vampire accelerated amigas or v4s can't compete on the Amiga demo compo.
  Maybe Neoman or other sceners can try to ask some party organizers to let vampire specific productions compete on the main Amiga demo compo.. Blizzard 060 was ok before v1200 and Warp1260. But now a change would be a necessity and will bring some major benefit to all Amiga-scene visibility..


Nikos Tomatsidis

Posts 65
12 Oct 2020 19:57


Looking at demo scene productions the last years it is less 060 or AGA demos than before. Almost everything is A500. Demo sceners like to bang the hardware and see what they can get out of it. In Amiga world that is legacy hardware made up to around 1994 using original chipsets for audio, video. There is almost never done RTG demos and almost none for NG Amigas, PPC etc. It is just not interesting. Vampire will never be accepted in the retro compos. Sure possible to make an entry for the wild compo.



Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 123
12 Oct 2020 20:07


nikos tomatsidis wrote:

  Looking at demo scene productions the last years it is less 060 or AGA demos than before. Almost everything is A500. Demo sceners like to bang the hardware and see what they can get out of it. In Amiga world that is legacy hardware made up to around 1994 using original chipsets for audio, video. There is almost never done RTG demos and almost none for NG Amigas, PPC etc. It is just not interesting. Vampire will never be accepted in the retro compos. Sure possible to make an entry for the wild compo.
 
 

 

  Then we need to do something about that. We could arrange a demo party for Vampires AND regular Amiga´s. Start off small first, and expand if the interest is there.
 
  Compos for:
  Amiga 500
  Amiga with AGA ( A1200/A4000 )
  Amiga´s with 060´s
  V2 for 500/600 & 1200
  And finally V4 standalone
 
  Or something like that. Just a thought.


A1200 Coder

Posts 70
12 Oct 2020 20:31


It's about time that they make some changes in their demo hardware setup. It looks to me there was never any good 68060 boards made for A1200, until this Warp 1260 was released recently. Both chip ram and fast ram access speeds is poor for Blizzard 1260, Apollo 1260 and Viper 1260. They have 3,5-5,5 MB/sec write speed to chip ram. And some of these boards also have poor fast ram speed.

With 3,5 MB write speed into chip ram, 3D graphics will be very slow. You want a board that will allow full write speed of 7 MB/sec to chip ram, like Blizzard IV/68030-50MHz, or a Warp A1260. Or a Vampire, of course ;)


Eric Gus

Posts 438
13 Oct 2020 03:23


nikos tomatsidis wrote:

    Sure possible to make an entry for the wild compo.
   
 

 
  Some time ago "chucky" himself said the vampires would only ever qualify for wild compo because they are not classical machines.. {at the time he was not being sarcastic but more matter of fact -- those are the compos rules same would go for any classical machine thats been significantly altered with say custom hardware or something}
 
  That said, I think we should just give the big middle finger to the classical parties and all the set in their way curmudgeons who are just going to bash the vampire (and/or anything else like it). Have our own compo/party and be done with the "old" amiga scene.. start anew..


Aksel Andersen

Posts 116
13 Oct 2020 05:36


"big middle finger to the classical parties"

Yeah!! F*** c64 too!!



Nikos Tomatsidis

Posts 65
13 Oct 2020 07:32


Aksel Andersen wrote:

        "big middle finger to the classical parties"
         
          Yeah!! F*** c64 too!!
         
       

       
        You can F... whoever you want but the fact is that the C64 scene is huge with a lot of releases. The talent they have on board is massive. If you do not appreciate 8-bit, SID with its limitations it is up to you.
       
        There are very few "only" Classic parties. Most parties are for modern and classic.
     
      It is not about "bashing" anything. I seen there are some new C64 compatible 8-bit machine in development. It will be a very powerful 8-bit computer but it will neither be accepted in classic demo compos.
         
      I do not see the big problem with a entry to the wild compo. You can advertise, or name in big letters that it is made on a Vampire.
      The problem is who will do it. Since it is never done a nice Amiga PPC demo I have problem to see who will do a vampire demo.

1. Do it yourself!
 
2. Make a Vampire, Amiga Gathering with some nice money prices.
Part of the problem is that people do not do scene prods. for money. Well, if you have enough of them everything is possible ;)
   
 
 


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5017
13 Oct 2020 08:49


While I like demos, I personally find it very nice that new games come out for Amiga. In the last year a number good new games did come out.
 
Also some games like "DIABLO" are so demanding that they are really only playable on Vampire.

 
 
I have the feeling that a few more games are in preparation now for the Vamp and will also require the performance of Vamp. I see here a trend of people also tuning existing games for Vamp adding extra features for Vamp owners.

Maybe a few games come out will also motivate demo people more.
 
 


Antony Coello

Posts 69
13 Oct 2020 10:03


I see C64 is mentioned, along with having arguably the best Demoscene.

Well, thats hard to argue with: It has 44.1Khz sound playback, real-time sample strech/pitch bend flange, OCS quality pictures. There was even a demo that played a sample through the TV without even using the sound chip...

How is all this top line coding possible?

Maybe a bit of hacking the C64, but I also believe that it has the biggest no. of machines out there for the 8-bits (and big user base) along with nearly 40 years of hacking R&D and FIXED HARDWARE.

That last point is probably the most important. Therefore you have the maximum amount of people coding and sharing techniques for exactly the same system. Yeah, theres a few differences (SD type drives/carts+REU upgrades) but 99% of the work is the same.

In contrast, the Amiga demoscene has pretty much always been fragmented. Look how many differences there are: WB1.1/2/3, 2.0/3.0/1. 512kb/1mb/2mb/4mb/8mb RAM (Fast/Chip RAM). OCS/ECS/AGA. 68000/020/030/040/060, 8Mhz-100Mhz.

Ok, the point is, I believe the Vampire should not stray too far to doing its own thing and hence creating another fragmentation.

I believe the Apollo team have navigated the fine line well...the V500/600 are enhanced compatible accelerators and the V4SA has full backwards compatability (something that plenty of other accelerators do not).


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5017
13 Oct 2020 10:28


Antony Coello wrote:

I see C64 is mentioned, along with having arguably the best Demoscene.
   
Well, thats hard to argue with: It has 44.1Khz sound playback, real-time sample strech/pitch bend flange, OCS quality pictures.
 

 
no.
 
C64 is cool but from its features its not comparable to Amiga.
C64 audio does not support "samples" and "OCS quality pictures" are not possible by far.


Aksel Andersen

Posts 116
13 Oct 2020 12:50


" You can F... whoever you want but the fact is that the C64 scene is huge with a lot of releases."

i was being sarcastic.

If people want vampire demos, code it yourself. Don´t complain that other wont code it for you.

Have you guys asking for vampire demos ever released an amiga demo?

What an attitude?!? :D


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 1739
13 Oct 2020 12:55


Antony Coello wrote:

  Ok, the point is, I believe the Vampire should not stray too far to doing its own thing and hence creating another fragmentation.

Why thinking it as fragmentation?

It has faster compatible CPU, fast RTG and in V4 case/gold3 core enhanced chipset. Its all in line with past plus adding speed and few more tricks, exactly what could be "breathe of fresh air",

In fact, it could put a new standard on the plate that could way more compete to PC compo then 060 AGA category, which was top of line in past.

While I love to see what can be squeezed out C64, A500 or plain A1200, real treat comes with more power.


Antony Coello

Posts 69
13 Oct 2020 12:56



@Gunnar:
Im not saying a C64 matches an Amiga for GFX/sound.
 
  However, the above mentioned features HAVE been achieved. Maybe not viable for everyday use, (i.e. games) but we WERE talking demoscene! :)
 
  Anyway, you are missing the point, I was describing what years of honing a never changing system can acheve. Im not really bashing the Amiga.


Antony Coello

Posts 69
13 Oct 2020 13:01


@Vojin:

I was actually saying, the Vampire team has done the right thing. My criticism was more at the rest of the Amiga platform, with the different machines/configs needed to play all games/use all utils.

The Vampire seems to have brought it back together again.


Markus B

Posts 202
13 Oct 2020 16:35


Well, the fact that there are no Vampire specific demo productions should be investigated.

And even when not limited to the demo scene, the acceptance is very poor. There is not much except Riva and Diablo, if I'm not wrong.


Boban Krsmanovic

Posts 9
13 Oct 2020 17:52


Just an idea...
(it might be good, it might be bad)

How about, if Apollo team announce contest for the best Vampire demo, and offer some price (free vamp card, or whatever)?
Would that spark interest?


Roger Andre Lassen

Posts 123
13 Oct 2020 19:21


Boban Krsmanovic wrote:

Just an idea...
  (it might be good, it might be bad)
 
  How about, if Apollo team announce contest for the best Vampire demo, and offer some price (free vamp card, or whatever)?
  Would that spark interest?

Now, thats a cool idea. I like that one.


Nikos Tomatsidis

Posts 65
13 Oct 2020 19:22


Boban Krsmanovic wrote:

    Just an idea...
      (it might be good, it might be bad)
     
      How about, if Apollo team announce contest for the best Vampire demo, and offer some price (free vamp card, or whatever)?
      Would that spark interest?
   

   
    I'm afraid you will not see anything of great quality.
    The people doing the best Amiga, C64 demos work for game companies etc. They have little or no interest in this. It is a big job to do a great demo and they just do it for fun on the retro computer they love.
    Doing RTG demo is almost like doing a PC demo. I can say it again. Why did not anyone do a great, original Amiga NG Demo or Game? We are talking 20+ years with MorphOS, AmigaOS PPC, AROS i386. They even have support for 3D hardware!
   
    If a lot is interested in a demo or original game it is better to start collecting money and pay someone to do it.
    I have also mentioned this before! Why do you not talk with Richard about doing the upcoming, original Amiga game Proxima III in higher resolution for the Vampire. Maybe also better sound quality than the original Amiga version. This are the guys behind Reshoot-R.
   
    It might not be very difficult for them to do it and it might not be very expensive.
    Just to take something out of the wild.
    Let's say it they would like 5000Euro to do it. That is around 100 Vampire users paying 50Euro and maybe even receive the game for free.
   
    If you kickstart this, it is a good beginning for maybe more to come. The Vampire does not have anything original, great to show. I'm sure this would also sell more Vampire cards. More users, more interest, more software.
  The Vampire team would of cause have to support with hardware and maybe even some money. It would benefit everyone.
   


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 5017
14 Oct 2020 06:34


nikos tomatsidis wrote:

If you kickstart this,

Personally, I would NOT kickstart anything in Amiga land.

I believe people should develop what they want.
And when they finished it and when they did something GOOD, then you should honor this and you should buy it.

Reward people that did something good.



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