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Louis Dias

Posts 15
14 Jun 2018 17:08


Yes, that's a nice demo but I see 2 to 32 triangles/polygons max to pull it off depending how the texture was mapped.  This is why I believe AMMX belongs in the blitter or copper and massively parallelized/multi-cored.


Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 3431
14 Jun 2018 18:41


Louis Dias wrote:

  This is why I believe ..

 
Could it be that you are neither a game programmer nor a professional hardware engineer?
Our team has both experienced game programmers and professional chip designers. Its nice that you try to help them with your opinion.
 
Do you know the fairy tale story about the Turtle which tried to educate an Eagle how to fly?


David Wright

Posts 268
14 Jun 2018 19:03


There is another one of Gunnar's parables, I love 'em.


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
15 Jun 2018 05:49


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
  APOLLO 68080 is highly powerful by itself and APOLLO 68080 is internally designed with Multi-Core support.
   
 


Did you try making a 96 bit or 128 bit version?


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 349
15 Jun 2018 05:53


tango one wrote:

Gunnar von Boehn wrote:

   
  So working in a team of 2 you can assume to be able to do more work.
   
 

 
  Thats awsome of what this team have done in so short time, compared to what C= did with some thousends of employees.
 

Also keep in mind the technologies of the 80s and early 90s


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 348
15 Jun 2018 08:16


thellier alain wrote:

Wazp3D for AMMX was already discussed here
 
  CLICK HERE 

Merci Alain,

Discussion is I assume nice for coders, but it doesnt indicate feasability to non educated reader.

I hope someone can pick it up and we can make first bounty or paypal support to a willing coder.

How does existing 68k wazp3d perform on x13+ Vamps?


Adam Whittaker

Posts 103
15 Jun 2018 09:54


so bringing the topic back around to saga/aga launch  are we talking days? weeks? or months now?


Peter Heginbotham

Posts 131
15 Jun 2018 11:14


between now and Sunday 23 September which is the last day of Summer.

T-minus 100 Days


Kef Emzy

Posts 10
15 Jun 2018 11:35


Gunnar, Would it make sense to add bezier curve capability for the blitter? Faster font rendering perhaps?


Michael Nurney

Posts 243
15 Jun 2018 15:29


Reading between the lines , I would imagine gold3 to be at the end of the year. If itís early then thatís great 😀

Either good luck :)


Thellier Alain

Posts 62
18 Jun 2018 09:18


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

  [about Wazp3D] : nice for coders, but it doesnt indicate feasability to non educated reader.
 

 
  This is because I dont have the answers too ;-)
  I dont have a Vampire now but I will buy a standalone a soon as possible so I cant tell how performs Wazp3D on a Vampire hardware
 
  But I have seen videos and read reports: current Wazp3D & MiniGL/StormMesa can runs now on Vampire hardware but is too slow for games :-(
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  So Wazp3D will need to be drastically enhanced to be really usable for games on Vampire : perhaps will need to run 20X faster or more
 
  As Wazp3D was almost never tested/enhanced/optimized for real 68k machines making it 2x faster with rewriting some parts is not impossible. Then using AMMX code will speed the most crucial part (processing pixel fragments) perhaps 5-10x.
  But it is theorical : will need to benchmark on real hard before starting to code
 
  The most inner loop in a 3D engine process the pixels (like a fragment shader) with zbuffer, texturing, filtering,coloring, modulate and blending it will cost around 20 instructions
  So the more "things" the AMMX can do in a single instruction the better
 
  This is why I asked about a new
  lea3D(uv,tex),ptr
  with uv as a single 64 bits vector register containing two 32 bits values
  and a
  padd32 to add two 64 bits vectors as 32 bits (an add ivec2 in fact)
 
 
 
 
 
 


Gregthe Canuck

Posts 248
18 Jun 2018 10:18


That youtube demo you linked to was running on core 2.7 with femu.

It would be interesting to see that running under core 2.9 as a new performance base. It may be significantly improved already. :)

Cheers!


Louis Dias

Posts 15
18 Jun 2018 17:21


Actually I am a programmer though I started in computer engineering.  I've also worked with some 3D api and know that the only way to achieve acceptable performance is because modern graphics cards do massively parallel computing.  Heck gpu clocks are still under 1Ghz Ö Clockspeed is not the issue.
 
  In fact one of my links earlier was to an opensource 3d programmer's cad program called OpenSCAD.  This way I can program the 3D object I want rather than use a traditional point and click UI because I find it faster to code it than draw it.  That's why I was asking about AMIGA applications that can render .stl files.  Apparently only Blender on OS4 can...

Here's a test web page I did to try out threeJS on a web page:
    EXTERNAL LINK


Thellier Alain

Posts 62
18 Jun 2018 19:00


.STL is not a complicated file format : I will add this file format to my Microbe3D one of those days...


Louis Dias

Posts 15
18 Jun 2018 19:17


Yes, it is simple ... both binary and ascii version.
I'm just shocked that such a trivial thing doesn't exist.  It is the most interchangeable 3D format and yet...crickets...

I've used OpenSCAD to re-create parts of the interior of my car and sent the .stl files to 3dhubs . com for printing.


Steve Ferrell

Posts 207
18 Jun 2018 23:48


Louis Dias wrote:

  Yes, it is simple ... both binary and ascii version.
    I'm just shocked that such a trivial thing doesn't exist.  It is the most interchangeable 3D format and yet...crickets...
   
    I've used OpenSCAD to re-create parts of the interior of my car and sent the .stl files to 3dhubs . com for printing.
 

 
Stereo-lithography for the masses occurred long after the Amiga's popularity had waned so why are you surprised that classic Amiga apps supporting the STL file format are few-to-none?
 
AutoDesk's DXF file format is ubiquitous among CAD programs for 2D and 3D data exchange as far back as the late 1980's but you'll only find one or two classic Amiga apps that even claim to support DXF, and very poorly I might add.
 
The Amiga was never marketed nor perceived to be a system for serious 2-D or 3-D CAD design work for several reasons, one being that most stock Amigas didn't possess a math co-processor but mainly because people perceived the Amiga to be a machine for gamers or video designers/editors/animators so CAD developers chose to take their R&D dollars to other platforms, and rightly so.
 


John Heritage

Posts 103
19 Jun 2018 00:07


If anyone has the skills - the sourcecode for slic3r is here:
EXTERNAL LINK 
Convert .STL into G-Code for use with 3D printers.  Written in C++ and uses PERL. 

And a basic 3D printing app that runs in PERL (Amiga has a PERL port)..  EXTERNAL LINK 
So Step 1 - visit a page with STL files
Step 2 - Slic3r it to G-Code
Step 3 - use Pronterface (PERL) to print to a 3D printer

(Connect to 3D Printer using a serial port..)


Ian Parsons

Posts 159
19 Jun 2018 00:14


CAD software is specialist and costly to develop compared to consumer applications like a word processor or spreadsheet. So professional CAD software was very expensive. If you are going to develop very expensive software (costing tens of thousands of dollars) it's sensible to target expensive "professional" systems (also costing tens of thousands of dollars). The first two generations of Amiga were too cheap to be professional CAD systems and needed accelerators and graphics cards to provide the performance and hires monitor support for pro CAD tools. By the time the A3000 came along the days of the specialist workstations were ending with high end PCs becoming the tools of choice.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 348
19 Jun 2018 00:57


Ian Parsons wrote:

  The first two generations of Amiga were too cheap to be professional CAD systems and needed accelerators and graphics cards to provide the performance and hires monitor support for pro CAD tools. By the time the A3000 came along the days of the specialist workstations were ending with high end PCs becoming the tools of choice.
 

 
  1991 was not that late, and it was second gen Amiga. However, yes, CAD software never picked up on AmigaOS, neither sadly word processing, database and spreadshit really developed beyond some basic levels.1994 crash of Commodore and subsequent vanish of Amiga software market surely took its heavy toll.

  Those consequences we suffer even today. There were some nice solutions during Amiga golden era, but is quite outdated software by today standards.
 
  Maxon CAD used to exist
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  MaxonCAD 2 DMS
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  Couple of MUI based solutions and some basic levels where software might be picked from, if any developers left.
 
  e.g. ~1997 simple solutions
 
  Plan Demo
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  SchematicsCAD
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  PCAD
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  TroniCAD
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  Having some open source ports and developments like e.g. AbiWord under OS4 kind of saves the day. It would be e.g. great to see GIMP and Libre Writter ported to m68k with MUI4 GUI. I suppose some free and open source CAD does exist.


Gilles Dridi

Posts 7
01 Jul 2018 21:13


Gilles Dridi wrote:

Hello,
 
  AAA was on the edge in 1993 Dev Conf :
 
  EXTERNAL LINK 
  And some ugly nyx prototype board?
 
 
  But a totally different chip set with SIMD? for 3D was design in parallel? :
 
  EXTERNAL LINK   
 
  What about NatAmi 3D core ?
 
  I understood that 68080 with AMMX (SIMD) is used instead ; isn't it ?
 
  Of course there's the Vampire team working hard to AAA salvation as excerpted Stephen Jones in a Retro Gaming episode.
 
  Someday I will start with HDL but seems there's other way to participate like making software for USB or Ethernet on/for the standalone V4 ...
 
  DGILLES

Now, let's talk about Atari Jaguar ?

At 25:00 twenty five minutes passed :

EXTERNAL LINK 
Nitendo 64 (cube) , PlayStation are all really retro gaming ?

Amigalement..

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