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Apollo Team Activity Report (November)page  1 2 3 

Mr Niding

Posts 202
04 Nov 2017 12:41


How far off the Computer speedlimits are we? About 11:30 into this video they discuss the absolute limits of computing. Is he talking about the V4!?

EXTERNAL LINK


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 673
04 Nov 2017 13:40


Mr Niding wrote:

How far off the Computer speedlimits are we? About 11:30 into this video they discuss the absolute limits of computing. Is he talking about the V4!?

Interesting "hear". Well, true is that FPGA has physical constrains in reaching levels of performance to heat/energy consumption like everything else, but since FPGA is programmable, but limitedly in terms of physical space, Apollo seems to be finetuning between SAGA chipset/CPU features/HDMI resolutions and CPU frequency.

Saying that it aint as real CPUs can be, and is faster amongst FPGA Amiga clones.



M Rickan

Posts 133
04 Nov 2017 20:30


Ian Parsons wrote:

A1200.net (new a1200 cases and keycap kicksatrters) revealed they had received a V4 standalone prototype from the team at Amiga 32. I'll leave it to you to speculate why.

The necessary components for a retro relaunch are coming together but the rag tag group of contributors and uncertainty concerning ownership make it unrealistic - at least for now.

Amiga32 did seem to have an air of detente though.

When was the last time so many different groups occupied the same space and felt so excited about the Amiga?


M Rickan

Posts 133
04 Nov 2017 20:36


Ian Parsons wrote:

Whilst activity on OS3.1 is welcomed I'm not getting excited about it yet. Chances of Apollo optimisations from an official release remain slim at the moment.

It might be a little premature but the very thought at one point was inconceivable.

MorphOS was represented at the show. Has the development team chimed in on the Vampire?

What about H&P and 3.9? Do they still maintain control?


Ian Parsons

Posts 125
04 Nov 2017 21:52


My understanding is that the licence for H&P to work on and exploit Amiga OS expired a long time ago which leaves 3.9 in a state of limbo. There must still be some new old stock of 3.9 CD ROM pressings with Amiga retailers but I suspect when that stock is gone it's gone and that's the end of the (legal) line for 3.9.


Markus Horbach

Posts 35
05 Nov 2017 09:07


>What about H&P and 3.9? Do they still maintain control?
You can buy OS 3.9 at vesalia who became the rights owner afaik.

EXTERNAL LINK  "AmigaOS 3.9 comes in a nice CD-ROM jewel case with a bi-lingual booklet (in English and German)."
No longer true. Vesalia ships a CD-R with the original CD cover print on the CD and some kind of license sticker on the jewel case. No booklet included, I assume they do not reprint the manual but only copy the CD because they have the copyright.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 673
05 Nov 2017 09:33


Markus Horbach wrote:

  No longer true. Vesalia ships a CD-R with the original CD cover print on the CD and some kind of license sticker on the jewel case. No booklet included, I assume they do not reprint the manual but only copy the CD because they have the copyright.

Old news. But I am glad OS 3.9 is avail. Its legal base to AmiKit X/Apollo and only one I dont own (yet).


Renaud Schweingruber

Posts 85
05 Nov 2017 10:44


Vesalia should soon run out of stock on AmigaOS 3.9 CDs. Other resellers can't get them anymore.


M Rickan

Posts 133
05 Nov 2017 19:33


Ian Parsons wrote:

My understanding is that the licence for H&P to work on and exploit Amiga OS expired a long time ago which leaves 3.9 in a state of limbo.

So they effectively own the IP but can't sell it? And presumably with Amiga non-existent the original agreement is dead.

What a mess.


Kresimir Lukin

Posts 22
06 Nov 2017 06:17


That is why I always keep repeating that the AROS only will keep Amiga alive, no Hyperion,no any other company, only open source.


Mr Niding

Posts 202
06 Nov 2017 06:37


Kresimir Lukin wrote:

That is why I always keep repeating that the AROS only will keep Amiga alive, no Hyperion,no any other company, only open source.

It does require something essential: 1 or more developers working on AROS.
Until that is an reality, we can hold up AROS all we want, but the code wont magically appear.


Wawa T

Posts 435
06 Nov 2017 08:45


a little strange is, that there is apparently work done on aros what concerns apollo adaptation, which is nice. little has been communicated about it, let alone the source has been shared or binaries have been made accessible for cross testing, which kind of defeats aros philosophy.
 
  even though a person may believe to have sole expertise in an area and may be even right about it, there is hardly enough capacity to pull of projects single handedly. the effort simply needs to be distributed for better or worse. its the consequence of the situation. alas everybody seems to stick to amiga-hacker philosophy to keep everything to himself.


Mallagan Bellator

Posts 173
07 Nov 2017 00:32


One question, if anyone knows? Could the updates files of the revisited 3.1 possibly be used together with 3.9?


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 673
07 Nov 2017 00:52


Mallagan Bellator wrote:

One question, if anyone knows? Could the updates files of the revisited 3.1 possibly be used together with 3.9?

Never recommended, would be a mess. And revisited 3.1 doesnt exist yet. Look at it as just OS 3.1 bugfix and likely Hyperion revenue source.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 591
08 Nov 2017 06:05


Here's my ambitious vision:

1. Hyperion Entertainment release 3.1 with bug fixes and some updates and some licensed shareware.

2. Assuming they get a good volume of sales; recognise that Apollo Core/Vampire is the continuity of AMIGA "proper" and release a version of AOS3.whatever that ONLY RUNS ON 68080 with all of it's enhanced features. This has nothing to do with AOS4.x on PPC, even if they upgrade the release number to 4.x, or call it AOS/Vampire NG 1.0 even.... The commands would all be recompiled with 68000, 68020, 68030, 68040, 68060 AND 68080 assembler instructions in there, WHATEVER WORKS BEST!!!! Multi-view would use the S-AGA and AMMX2 command set (is that right?).... It simply is something completely new, BUT all old SW works too, as the CPU/chipset supports it!

While it may never happen, am I expecting too much of what is possible, if (enough) money falls through the proper cogs and gears???


Stefan Niestegge

Posts 29
09 Nov 2017 22:39


Kresimir Lukin wrote:

That is why I always keep repeating that the AROS only will keep Amiga alive, no Hyperion,no any other company, only open source.

 
1+


John William

Posts 221
09 Nov 2017 22:59


Kresimir Lukin wrote:

That is why I always keep repeating that the AROS only will keep Amiga alive, no Hyperion,no any other company, only open source.

I agree 100%. But unless a coder shows up and take over nothing will change. 


M Rickan

Posts 133
10 Nov 2017 02:12


Thierry Atheist wrote:

2. Assuming they get a good volume of sales; recognise that Apollo Core/Vampire is the continuity of AMIGA "proper" and release a version of AOS3.whatever that ONLY RUNS ON 68080

How exactly can something be both a source of continuity and so disruptive at the same time?

Optimizing code for a particular device is great but not to make it the exclusive domain.

Surely after decades of Amiga market fragmentation we've learned that bringing things together is far more productive than subdividing them.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 591
10 Nov 2017 03:31


m rickan wrote:
Thierry Atheist wrote:
2. Assuming they get a good volume of sales; recognise that Apollo Core/Vampire is the continuity of AMIGA "proper" and release a version of AOS3.whatever that ONLY RUNS ON 68080

How exactly can something be both a source of continuity and so disruptive at the same time?

Optimising code for a particular device is great but not to make it the exclusive domain.


Hi m rickan,

AOS1.x commands work on 2.x and 3.x.
AOS2.x works on 3.x.
Or at least, they're supposed to.

BUT, AOS 3.x commands don't work on 2.x or 1.x, as well, 2.x doesn't work on 1.x.

Generally, 1.x productivity programs work on 2.x and 3.x, maybe some games won't.

Anyway, it works the same for third party software.
-------

Here's "My Vision"

There aren't a whole slew of AOS commands that work on 68000 or 020 or 030 or 040 or 060 exclusively. There might not even be any AOS commands that take advantage of ANY assembler commands of 030, 040 or 060 processors at all!!!! Maybe there are some that need an 020.

With the 68080 we've lost NONE of the past software library treasure trove....

And while everyone knows that I'm the LAST ONE to embrace diversity, and am completely opposed to fragmentation, this is a REBIRTH, and the REAL PATH of AMIGA forward.

So, yes, LET'S fragment, from here on out. There's been a 2016-1994=22 year rift. All the AOS commands should be written/compiled for the 68080 "CPU" (I use air quotes because it's an FPGA at the moment), to take advantage of new registers, be cache aware (if that's a thing), use fused and new 64 bit assembler commands where possible, with AMMX2 and FPU serving as truly TITANIC superpower additions, without hundreds of "if...thens" to cater for the possibility that the command is being run on a 68000 CPU. Because if that were the case, one should ALSO cram in hundreds of code segments that also deal with "best case scenario" CPU usage because you are using a 68020 or 030 or 040 or 060 as well!!!!!

I don't know how it all works, but the programs will always need to be OCS/ECS/AGA and S-AGA "aware", meaning that programs can't get away from having some bloat, instead of being absolute lean and mean merciless RAM misers. Everyone knows that that can only be achieved if it was all hand coded assembler, though.
m rickan wrote:
Surely after decades of Amiga market fragmentation we've learned that bringing things together is far more productive than subdividing them.

I see this as "the only road", and as such, a worthy sacrifice.

It works, and is FANTASTIC!

LONG LIVE VAMPIRE (sort of)!!!!!!!!!!


Stefano Briccolani

Posts 67
01 Dec 2017 20:56


When we will see the release of gold core 2.7 for our beloved vampires? Is this core planned to be released for the public before the end of the year?

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