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Ibrowse 2.5 Coming 2018 Hopefullypage  1 2 3 

Chris Dennett

Posts 67
20 Oct 2017 01:18


You mean Javascript rather than Java? Two entirely diferrent things


Sean Sk

Posts 488
20 Oct 2017 02:40


iBrowse has Javascript support.
     
  The decision to not include CSS in iBrowse 2.5 is dumb quite frankly and I won't be purchasing it until they include it.
   
  I can understand that if this was a free program they could take as long as they want with development and do what they want. But seriously, if they want to make money from this software, as they no doubt intend to do, they need to start pulling their fingers out and pickup the pace. It can't be another 10 years before they release the next version. Why not release regular incremental updates like every other browser instead of making us wait for each "major" version. Once you start charging for software it's good customer service to provide ongoing support otherwise you'll just end up losing customer loyalty.
 
 


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
20 Oct 2017 02:57


That and delaying full DOM support is a downer. Each ones decision is to support it or not.
 
  Just retested OWB OS4 version from 2011, its quite decent HTML5 browser. 2016 Odyssey backport from MorphOS is really a usable thing, and I am glad there is an AROS port of this.
 
  I see newest browser on AROS x86 is from 2016 and backporting this to 68k AROS should be way out to modern browsing
  EXTERNAL LINK   
  I supose it was result of $1300 bounty on Power2People
  EXTERNAL LINK   
  Sadly, bounty to add multimedia player was cancelled
  EXTERNAL LINK   
  It would be great if we could develop AROS 68k priority list
  and support such backports and further AROS (both 68k and x86, PPC even) development.

John William wrote:

  Wishlist? You are aware all my wishlists already exist in netsurf 68k with the exception of latest html, css and javascript. No longer wishing when I know it can be done. It is more why it is not done?

Well, being done in one browser, doesnt mean it will be easy to implement in another. We have the latest Netsurf backported and used on Vampires, so maybe working with AmiSoft to improve it even more is shorted road then to backstart with Ibrowse or Voyager, no matter the nostalgia factor and authentic Amiga feel of these.


John William

Posts 563
20 Oct 2017 04:00


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

That and delaying full DOM support is a downer. Each ones decision is to support it or not.
   
    Just retested OWB OS4 version from 2011, its quite decent HTML5 browser. 2016 Odyssey backport from MorphOS is really a usable thing, and I am glad there is an AROS port of this.
 
  I see newest browser on AROS x86 is from 2016 and backporting this to 68k AROS should be way out to modern browsing
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    I supose it was result of $1300 bounty on Power2People
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    Sadly, bounty to add multimedia player was cancelled
    EXTERNAL LINK   
    It would be great if we could develop AROS 68k priority list
    and support such backports and further AROS (both 68k and x86, PPC even) development.
 
 
John William wrote:

  Wishlist? You are aware all my wishlists already exist in netsurf 68k with the exception of latest html, css and javascript. No longer wishing when I know it can be done. It is more why it is not done?
 

 
  Well, being done in one browser, doesnt mean it will be easy to implement in another. We have the latest Netsurf backported and used on Vampires, so maybe working with AmiSoft to improve it even more is shorted road then to backstart with Ibrowse or Voyager, no matter the nostalgia factor and authentic Amiga feel of these.

I agree a trillion percent with you. I truly believe they should drop iBrowse forever because clearly they have shouted that 30 years ago when they stopped supporting it for that long. It is truly silly to pick up the slack now after that long, almost insulting. I think with their knowledge they should talk to the author who ported netsurf and work in merging what makes iBrowse special.

A) Light
B) Fast
C) MUI and awesome interface and uses the Amiga API's GUI interface perfectly werll
D) Superb download manager
E) Login/user access feature and ability to ftp within the ibrowse
F) Awesome ability to change preference of ibrowse beautifully and ability to add bookmark and all the good stuff.
G) Ability to add as many tabs or new windows
H) Ability to put bookmark on toolbar

That's it. That's what makes ibrowse special that and the ability to right click mouse button on hyperlink to copy link or download files or select text and copy, and so on. Take all of that and merge it with what makes netsurf superior over ibrowse...light years and light years and light years and light years and light years and light years and light years and light years and light years ahead of ibrowse in terms of technology and features and engine.

When these two get merged you now have almost modern browser. Maybe in the future with v4 and possible even v5 there will be possible ability to have html5 and up to date css and even functioning javascript. If we really focus on netsurf...netsurf could easily become like up to date firefox or ibrowser or even owb for aros of version 1.25.

If finance is stopping this...then I am more than happy to donate 500 dollars as the 1st bounty to support in power2people and no joke.

And if the ibrowse team will only do this in reason to selling it...then I am happy to spend 200 dollars to buy it.

Is the ibrowse team reading this? Are they willing to tackle this challenge or we will go to pace of the slowest slug on Earth where it would 500 years to add one single feature at a time?

Honestly, I don't have that much time to wait after 8,000 years for ibrowse to catch up where netsurf stands.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
20 Oct 2017 04:21


John William wrote:

  I agree a trillion percent with you. I truly believe they should drop iBrowse forever because clearly they have shouted that 30 years ago when they stopped supporting it for that long. It is truly silly to pick up the slack now after that long, almost insulting. I think with their knowledge they should talk to the author who ported netsurf and work in merging what makes iBrowse special.
 

 
  Contacting Arti EXTERNAL LINK and seeing is he willing to commit would be a good start. We could open power2people bounty (once there is coder willing to take it), while his bounty page at Patreon is also open. Clear goals should be stated - like GUI improvements you have mentioned :-)


Mr Niding

Posts 459
20 Oct 2017 05:43


Im sure Arti is impressed with people falling over themselves supporting him, which is surely encouraging (Yes, that was sarcasm).


John William

Posts 563
20 Oct 2017 05:48


Mr Niding wrote:

Im sure Arti is impressed with people falling over themselves supporting him, which is surely encouraging (Yes, that was sarcasm).

Truly between the 1st and 2nd page..your reply truly stand out as....well.....frankly.......

Out of the ordinary.

Yeah, that is the word I was thinking "Out of the ordinary." Is it possible you can explain to us why would you say that? Right now you are in the twilight zone, where doors talk to you, people whose heads are down and feet are up, cats with wings and dogs with fish bodies. Your statement is completely in that twilight zone. By you explaining to us the reason, perhaps we can leave the insanity world and enter back to reality?



Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
20 Oct 2017 07:41


Mr Niding wrote:

  Im sure Arti is impressed with people falling over themselves supporting him, which is surely encouraging (Yes, that was sarcasm).
 

 
  Well, there arent many developers left and man has done the job, similar to HunoPPC in OS4 gaming arena. More or better then many "companies" or better to say commercial products remaining. That deserves both respect and support in small donations.
 
  However, feasability of some of users is left on developers to judge. He did a lot of ports to 68k, but is it feasable to code a Amiga GUI for existing port, I suppose is completely different area.


John William

Posts 563
20 Oct 2017 08:19


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Mr Niding wrote:

  Im sure Arti is impressed with people falling over themselves supporting him, which is surely encouraging (Yes, that was sarcasm).
 

 
  Well, there arent many developers left and man has done the job, similar to HunoPPC in OS4 gaming arena. More or better then many "companies" or better to say commercial products remaining. That deserves both respect and support in small donations.
 
  However, feasability of some of users is left on developers to judge. He did a lot of ports to 68k, but is it feasable to code a Amiga GUI for existing port, I suppose is completely different area.

For the author who port it by himself the answer is NO.

Simple.

But the money is for group of professionals. That may change the answer.


Mr Niding

Posts 459
20 Oct 2017 09:25


@John William

There is nothing insane about it.

Take Toni and WinUAE. He clearly loves to code etc, but there is limits to his time and spesific intrest. He has said clearly PPC for example isnt really intresting, but "If given donations, I will change my priorities!". People did, and so he made AOS4.x emulation a reality.

Lowenstein/Reshoot has commented on EAB that the support beyond WORDS is in very limited supply in the community, and with many of us with RL jobs, wife and kids, there is limits to the amount of time they can justify spending on for example Netsurf, Wings (Daytona/Cherry Darling). Daytona did note that he had to dial down his priority of Wings development pace cause of the lack of pre-purchase, cause "I have to pay bills!" etc.

Arti was asked on this forum to make a patreon, he did, and 17 bucks a month is all he got to show for it. I contribute 15 bucks, which amounts to 13-14 after Patreon takes its cut. That leaves a wooping 3-4 bucks between the other 3 contributions.
Truly inspiring support.

Is this perspective insanity? If so, then fine.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 690
20 Oct 2017 10:24


I donated several times in past, f.e. twice to Kalamatee because I expected him to continue when he gets money. Where is he now? Vanished. I bought the new Personal Paint 68k because new versions were promised. We all know what happened... nothing. I do not care about the 4.X PPC version. And if you say I got something... yes but part of the deal was that there would be new versions, at least I understood it this way. So I am no longer interested to just give money without conditions. I want to know what is done, how long it needs and how much money is expected. Then I can think if I donate or not. Everything else not really works.


Mr Niding

Posts 459
20 Oct 2017 10:41


With regards to Kalamatee it was saving a developer that had contributed alot to AROS over the years.
  If your financial situation was a smoldering wreck, could you afford to sit infront of the computer all day, even if the community chips in a total of 250 bucks a month?
  I would expect Kalamatee is spending his time sorting out a new RL job, getting on his feet etc.

Do I hope he comes back soon(ish) to active development? Yes, ofcourse.


Olaf Schoenweiss

Posts 690
20 Oct 2017 10:57


no word from him, the only "official" comment was that he leaves. So I have to assume that he will not return in foreseeable future. There is need f.e. regarding Aros 68k, perhaps with a chance to get some money from vampire/apollo team reagrding certein tasks. As far as I know he should update/port final writer. There is a need there too so some money can be earned. You cannot become rich for sure but not completing projects certainly not brings money. But that is his decision, not mine. I only used this example that unconditioned money not really helps, to become a real motivation the community and people willing to donate are too few. If you have defined projects with real need, defined goals, defined time to complete and assigned developers the chance to get money is bigger.


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
20 Oct 2017 12:04


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  no word from him, the only "official" comment was that he leaves. So I have to assume that he will not return in foreseeable future. There is need f.e. regarding Aros 68k, perhaps with a chance to get some money from vampire/apollo team reagrding certein tasks. As far as I know he should update/port final writer.
 

 
  Too bad, does anyone know him/his situation personally and really? Posting how his recovery is going is better then nothing. I see level of support in $$$ has a bit droped.
 
  Since decent word processor is in my book even higher priority then updated browser - certainly am willing to donate towards updated Final Writter. Would both save money to buying outdated Amiga
 
  I agree, teams is what we need, but again Power2People mostly shows individual tasks and achivements.
 
  Maybe in separate AROS related thread a list of needs of backporting from x86 and improvements could be created so several people could go task by task, supported by us users and ApolloTeam.
 
  Great spirit willingness to share part of hardware earnings on software development towards better future!

Mr Niding wrote:

  Arti was asked on this forum to make a patreon, he did, and 17 bucks a month is all he got to show for it. I contribute 15 bucks, which amounts to 13-14 after Patreon takes its cut. That leaves a wooping 3-4 bucks between the other 3 contributions.
  Truly inspiring support.

Early next year when my screwed finances recover, I will share 10$ month with both Kalamitee and Arti. Quite enough for country with 400$ average salaries (African standard in Europe in 21st century, yes its possible). And as my situation improve, will share it.

But would also like to hear from Arti how Netsurf could be upgraded and which games he plan to do in future or enhance existing ports, as well as for Kalamitee when he reaches sustainability and continue AROS 68k development.

We both need to keep current developers and new blood and ideas.
 


Martin Soerensen

Posts 232
20 Oct 2017 12:23


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
no word from him, the only "official" comment was that he leaves. So I have to assume that he will not return in foreseeable future.

Too bad, does anyone know him/his situation personally and really? Posting how his recovery is going is better then nothing.

That sounds personal and thus not any of our business.

If you donate money to a developer, it is just that - a donation. It does not mean that you demand anything in return. The size of most donations are laughable anyway and not enough to cover any living expenses, so despite donations the development will have to be motivated more or less fully by personal interest. Like other people, most developers also have families that they will need to support and are no longer teenagers living in their parent's basement, spending their entire income on snacks, drinks, and soft/hardware..


Vojin Vidanovic

Posts 770
20 Oct 2017 12:39


Martin Soerensen wrote:

    Like other people, most developers also have families that they will need to support and are no longer teenagers living in their parent's basement, spending their entire income on snacks, drinks, and soft/hardware..
 

 
  I meant it as overall statements and ideas and plans toward his personal software development or other developments on scene. As we can see/and feel, silence is worse. Never intended to peak into personal life, especially if its not so good.


Wawa T

Posts 695
20 Oct 2017 14:07


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

Olaf Schoenweiss
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 364
20 Oct 2017 10:24

I donated several times in past, f.e. twice to Kalamatee because I expected him to continue when he gets money.

thats the difference between us. i donated to kalamatee for the work he did, not for what i expected him to do yet. if he puts up the work again, its up to him, best case after sorting out his life issues. he still comments on aros ml, but he doesnt seem to have an access to a suitable developer environment and quite honestly i wouldnt come up with any demands in front of the elite of developers who have done us a lot of mostly free service in a while but do not have a capacity to do it as of current. there are pretty few in that league.



Martin Soerensen

Posts 232
20 Oct 2017 14:07


Vojin Vidanovic wrote:
As we can see/and feel, silence is worse.

If someone chooses to stay away and not comment, we need to respect that since we do not know why he/she is staying away. It could be serious personal/family stuff, or it could be simple loss of interest but again, it is none of our business. The net result is the same anyway - no further development until they decide to continue.


Thierry Atheist

Posts 644
20 Oct 2017 16:45


WHEN more Vampires have been sold, this will turn around, funding from users, or not. (Because, some of the users are coders too.)

However, sales of software SHOULD rise, when there are more users.

Vampire is the irresistible draw!!!

Demand to boards sold is 25 to 1!!!!!!


Markus B

Posts 209
20 Oct 2017 17:07


I donated for several months to Kalamatee.
I recently dropped my Patreon activity towards him as I am not able to micro manage all different Amiga related developers.
I knew it was a very critical situation so I decided to help instantly for some time.

This kind of approach only works if there is a huge basis of potential donators. Usually it helps then a lot if some give.

I think it might be a more suitable idea to add some bucks to every sold Vampire card and place bounties/donate to devs who really achieved something.

It's 2017 and there is not much left of a commercial market.
If you do something for any kind of Amiga related system, don't expect to get paid. Do it for the fun, do it open source.

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